Baptist Views on Drinking

[Amy.G]

Jews would allow the wine to ferment, getting rid of ALL the yeast. Then strain it carefully and pour it into containers for storage or use.

I have read this many times on this board, but I wonder how did they know the juice contained yeast?

 

[kyredneck]

I have read this many times on this board, but I wonder how did they know the juice contained yeast?

I believe what Dr Bob is referring to is the dead yeast that settles out in the bottom of the finished wine. It's usually strained, or the wine siphoned off leaving the sediment of dead yeast in the bottom of the container. The particular yeast used for winemaking is normally/naturally present on the skin of the vinifera grape in that region of the world.

 

[Amy.G]

I believe what Dr Bob is referring to is the dead yeast that settles out in the bottom of the finished wine. It's usually strained, or the wine siphoned off leaving the sediment of dead yeast in the bottom of the container. The particular yeast used for winemaking is normally/naturally present on the skin of the vinifera grape in that region of the world.

Yes. We know that, but how did the ancient Jews know that? How would they have known that grape skins contained yeast?

 

[kyredneck]

Yes. We know that, but how did the ancient Jews know that? How would they have known that grape skins contained yeast?

Well, I can't answer that. They knew about leaven, which is yeast, for breadmaking. I suppose in that region of the world all you had to do was mash the juice from the grapes and let it ferment. Whether they knew there were microscopic yeasts on the skin of the grapes, I highly doubt it.

I don't think there was anything stupid about those people back then. I remember many years ago reading an article in NG magazine (I think it was NG) about a sunken Phonecian ship that was discovered off the coast of Lebanon (I think) that was loaded with wineskins of wine. Everybody was excited about the prospect of tasting 2000 year old wine but when they finally got it to the surface and tasted it, it had changed to vinegar. But, the BIG discovery turned out to be the cargo of something like 30,000 brass dinner plates on the ship. Every single plate had identical flaws in the same exact spot. The only conclusion/explanation for this was that the plates had been stamped out on a press! Amazing! (imo)

 

[Amy.G]

Well, I can't answer that. They knew about leaven, which is yeast, for breadmaking. I suppose in that region of the world all you had to do was mash the juice from the grapes and let it ferment. Whether they knew there were microscopic yeasts on the skin of the grapes, I highly doubt it.

I don't think there was anything stupid about those people back then. I remember many years ago reading an article in NG magazine (I think it was NG) about a sunken Phonecian ship that was discovered off the coast of Lebanon (I think) that was loaded with wineskins of wine. Everybody was excited about the prospect of tasting 2000 year old wine but when they finally got it to the surface and tasted it, it had changed to vinegar. But, the BIG discovery turned out to be the cargo of something like 30,000 brass dinner plates on the ship. Every single plate had identical flaws in the same exact spot. The only conclusion/explanation for this was that the plates had been stamped out on a press! Amazing! (imo)

Now that is cool!

The reason I ask about the yeast in wine is because people commonly say that the Jews would not have used un-fermented juice for passover because of the yeast in it. I just wonder how the average Jew knew there was yeast in fresh grape juice. Personally, I don't think there is any evidence of their knowledge of yeast in grape skins.

 

[Dr. Bob]

There is no grape juice that does not contain yeast. It is like our human bodies - full of yeast and kept under control by good bacteria (unless we kill off the good by penicillin and then the yeast rages as typical yeast infections). I work at my wife's clinic and we talk freely about such with many who come in.

Always tickles me to see how Rev Welch and family became millionaires off of "churches" when he convinced them that communion wine was sinful (fermented, yeast/sugars converted to alcohol) and they should buy his new improved "pure" concord grape drink.

Of course, concord grapes were unknown in the Mediterranean. And full of leaven, just the OPPOSITE of what Passover or the Lord's Supper is about!! But thousands of churches mistakenly think it is "better" to use this than to use what the Jews and the Church have used for millennia.

One of the most authentic wines for communion (if you dare try to follow closest to our Lord) is K by Saslove Cabernet Sauvignon Galilee Mediterranean. It is a rich fruity deep red wine made from grapes grown in the Kayumi Vineyard, one of Israel's coldest microclimates. Aging in new French oak barrels for six months added spicy, smoky flavors. About $15 so a little pricier than most kosher wine.

 

[Amy.G]

But Bob, HOW did they know it had yeast in it?? I don't remember reading any scripture that said they knew one way or the other.

 

[Jerome]

Wine is never yeast free.

This winemaking supplier's finest filtration pad [Sterile/Fine 0.5 microns] is:

capable of removing at least 80% of the left-over yeast that may still be lingering in a wine

Emphasis added. Doesn't sound like "yeast free" to me:laugh:

 

[Dr. Bob]

But Bob, HOW did they know it had yeast in it?? I don't remember reading any scripture that said they knew one way or the other.

Ah, they knew LOTS of things without a modern manual or internet. Yeasts and molds and most bacteria were well-known in the ancient world, before microscopes and modern so-called science.

Undoubtedly Joe Blowstein saw the yeast fermenting on juice after his kid left the sippy-cup out overnight. He had an "Aha!" moment, realizing that there was leaven/yeast in crushed grapes (as, perhaps, contrasted to crushed barley to which leaven had to be added to "ferment" and make bubbles and bread rise).

BTW my wife says the reason the human body has yeast in it all the time is to help it decay and return to dust upon death. There is no "good" from it (it is not needed in bodily processing; we have other gut and bowel bacteria that turn yesterday's pot roast into alcohol).

 

[Mississippi John]

Ah, they knew LOTS of things without a modern manual or internet. Yeasts and molds and most bacteria were well-known in the ancient world, before microscopes and modern so-called science.

Undoubtedly Joe Blowstein saw the yeast fermenting on juice after his kid left the sippy-cup out overnight. He had an "Aha!" moment, realizing that there was leaven/yeast in crushed grapes (as, perhaps, contrasted to crushed barley to which leaven had to be added to "ferment" and make bubbles and bread rise).

BTW my wife says the reason the human body has yeast in it all the time is to help it decay and return to dust upon death. There is no "good" from it (it is not needed in bodily processing; we have other gut and bowel bacteria that turn yesterday's pot roast into alcohol).

Meet me at The Sandbar ...sometime...and I'll buy you a drink and debate faithfulness with you . The "good "that may come from it"...is fellowship between sinners/believers."

 

[Dr. Bob]

Meet me at The Sandbar ...sometime...and I'll buy you a drink and debate faithfulness with you . The "good "that may come from it"...is fellowship between sinners/believers."

Boy, you come across as one bitter person. Since I've never been to the Sandbar (infamous bar in the old red-light district), I'll buy you a coffee at Hardees down the block.

You need to sober up, bro.

 

[kyredneck]

....... Sandbar (infamous bar in the old red-light district).......

In Casper Wyoming of course. Thanks. I googled it and learned something for today.

 

[Jerome]

More regarding this "yeast-free" wine nonsense [emphasis added]:

Grape Crafter Wine Technology Blog:

Either a 0.45 micron or 0.65 micron will give you a sterile fermentation against whole cells. There may be some autolyzed yeast fragments still in the wine, but this should take out most of them as well.

I just use diatomaceous earth filtration, similar to a swimming pool filter, for clarification, which does not harm the structure of the wine. This would not absolutely remove every yeast, but it will take out over 99.9%, which might be fine.