Baptist vs. Charismatic -Same Message??

[Multimom]

FROM THE BAPTIST HYMNAL:

Spirit of the Living God, fall fresh on me.
Spirit of the Living God, fall fresh on me.
Make me, mold me, use me fill me.
Spirit of the Living God, fall fresh on me.


FROM THE CHARISMATIC CHURCH:

Anointing, Fall on Me.
Sweet Anointing, Fall on Me.
Let the power of the Holy Ghost, fall on me.
Anointing Fall on me.


Can someone show me the difference(exclude the doctrinal issues, if you can.)

Actually, there's not much difference now is there??

 

[Dr. Bob]

Exclude the doctrinal? Hello. That IS the difference.

 

[Haruo]

Probably a different tune and meter are the biggest differences. At least I can't see how to make the Charismatic text fit the standard tune of "Spirit of the Living God".

Dr Bob, what doctrinal issue(s) do you see dividing these two texts? I don't see anything in the Charismatic text that would be doctrinally offensive to Baptists that is not also in the "Spirit of the Living God" text; being anti-Roman has never kept Baptists from singing "Faith of Our Fathers" to my knowledge, nor does the fact that "It Came Upon the Midnight Clear" was written by a Unitarian (who therefore must have been writing about "a different Jesus") keep us from singing it. (Of course, I'll admit you may not accept those two songs, but they are certainly sung by most Baptists in this country.)

Haruo

 

[bjonson]

Great question.

I have been critical of the Charismatic song you've listed but love the Baptist one! I confess that I have not seen the similarity until now.

Hmmmm.....

Brian

 

[superdave]

In addition to the different views of the Holy Spirit from a Doctrinal standpoint, Baptist Churches in general would view their church practice to generally model the guidlines of Paul throughout the Epistles to the maturing church. I have spoken to several Charasmatics, whose main scriptural support comes from the book of Acts, a transitional historical narrative. The teaching and preaching in the Epistles is definitely a more solid place to devlop practice from, than from the confusing and inconsistent process that we see in Acts, Spirit baptism occurring at different stages, different manifestations of the Spirit, the transition from Jewish centric missions to World missions, etc. You have to remember that the Apostles were given signs and wonders specifically to support their message, since the Biblical canon was incomplete. The scripture was not readily available, there was a need for God's power to be demonstrated by these men. Now that their inspired writings are complete, we see Paul saying If anyone preaches a different gospel than what you heard from us, label him a false teacher, and specifics about the decline of sign gifts, tongues, prophecy, etc. Because they were not to be part of the ongoing mature Body of Christ

There is not much difference in the words of the two songs, but the meaning and the understanding of what the actual realities of the Spirit's work make a huge difference

 

[superdave]

I wanted to add that this is why many people get confused either as new Christians or as people who get caught up in a religious experience between Baptistic churches and the Charasmatic movement. There is a large degree of similarity in the words and phrases, but the meaning is very different when you look at what is really being talked about.

You want to really scare someone as a Baptist, tell them your church is "Word Centered, Spirit filled" Now I can tell you that my Baptist church is definately both of those things, but that has become almost synonomous with the Charasmatic movement, and means something totally different than I would intend. If you came to my church, you would find strong biblical teaching, and you would see the work of the Spirit everywhere, but no signs and wonders, no tongues, etc.

 

[Eric B]

You have to remember that the Apostles were given signs and wonders specifically to support their message, since the Biblical canon was incomplete. The scripture was not readily available, there was a need for God's power to be demonstrated by these men. Now that their inspired writings are complete, we see Paul saying If anyone preaches a different gospel than what you heard from us, label him a false teacher, and specifics about the decline of sign gifts, tongues, prophecy, etc. Because they were not to be part of the ongoing mature Body of Christ

While it is true that these practices would become less prominent when the written word was available, still Paul nowhere says they would completely cease, and no scripture says that "once these epistles are read by everyone, then all signs would cease". People are reading a bit too much into passages like 1 Cor.13. In corinthians, Paul does discuss the proper use of gifts like tongues, (so it is was not just a transitional Acts thing, and tongues in Corinthians is different from the tongues in Acts anyway) though it is true that many today are using them wrong according to 1 Cor., or overemphasizing them, not paying attention to 14:19.

 

[Molly]

Being spirit filled is simply walking in accordance to God's Word....OBEDIENCE....

Charismatics make it to mean some extra-biblical experience.(tongues,revelations,prophecies,words from God,etc)

BIG difference!

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by Molly:
Being spirit filled is simply walking in accordance to God's Word.

Charismatics make it to mean some extra-biblical experience.(tongues,revelations,prophecies,words from God,etc). BIG difference!

WE know that distinction but I'm afraid it is artificial and not widely held by the Christian community in general.

When I hear "spirit-filled", I immediately equate it with "cruisematic" It is almost a "euphemism" so that they can divorce themselves from the more extreme charismaniacs (Benny Hinn type).

ps - we have an ad in today's paper for a "delightfully charismatic, spirit-filled worship" with "words of revelation, healing, and the power of the Holy Ghost".

I want to RUN . . .

 

[Molly]

Yikes!

 

[Eric B]

Being spirit filled is simply walking in accordance to God's Word....OBEDIENCE....

Charismatics make it to mean some extra-biblical experience.(tongues,revelations,prophecies,words from God,etc)

To be fair, many charismatic churches do say it is obedience, and then the gifts might accompany that (they wouldn't be legitimate if the person was not walking in obedience).
The experiences are not "extra-biblical', as they all can be found there, and the argument is whether they've been superseded or not. I will once again that many do go way overboard with it.

 

[Su Wei]

Originally posted by superdave:
In addition to the different views of the Holy Spirit from a Doctrinal standpoint, Baptist Churches in general would view their church practice to generally model the guidlines of Paul throughout the Epistles to the maturing church. I have spoken to several Charasmatics, whose main scriptural support comes from the book of Acts, a transitional historical narrative. The teaching and preaching in the Epistles is definitely a more solid place to devlop practice from, than from the confusing and inconsistent process that we see in Acts, Spirit baptism occurring at different stages, different manifestations of the Spirit, the transition from Jewish centric missions to World missions, etc. You have to remember that the Apostles were given signs and wonders specifically to support their message, since the Biblical canon was incomplete. The scripture was not readily available, there was a need for God's power to be demonstrated by these men. Now that their inspired writings are complete, we see Paul saying If anyone preaches a different gospel than what you heard from us, label him a false teacher, and specifics about the decline of sign gifts, tongues, prophecy, etc. Because they were not to be part of the ongoing mature Body of Christ

There is not much difference in the words of the two songs, but the meaning and the understanding of what the actual realities of the Spirit's work make a huge difference

agreed! the terminology is the same but it is a completely different reality!

 

[Su Wei]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
Exclude the doctrinal? Hello. That IS the difference.

But this was my first thought too. how do we understand the Holy Spirit other than doctrine?

 

[Gwyneth]

ps - we have an ad in today's paper for a "delightfully charismatic, spirit-filled worship" with "words of revelation, healing, and the power of the Holy Ghost".


RUN ....................