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Baptist vs. Presbyterian
- Thread starter chipsgirl
- Start date
tragic_pizza
New Member
That is - "one who wishes to be obedient to the Lord regarding baptism will be accomodated, as well as someone wanting to be disobedient." If someone is willing to submit to the will of God, he will be immersed as the Bible teaches. </font>[/QUOTE]*sigh*
That's right. I'm sorry. The degree of dampness is all that counts. My mistake.
tragic_pizza
New Member
How can an infant decide that? </font>[/QUOTE]The same way an infant can decide he or she needs to save for college, or participate in one daycare program over another one.
tragic_pizza
New Member
I simply answered your question. The Baptists and the wanna-be Baptists were the arguers.Originally posted by chipsgirl:
Stop hijacking my thread with arguments!
tragic_pizza
New Member
Thanks!
I was serious, though... I wonder if anyone "got it?"
The difference between Baptists and Presbyterians is that Presbyterians drink IN FRONT of each other.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
tragic_pizza
New Member
That's a shocker.
I was answering a question, not positing a theological position.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
That I understood your remark about infant baptism and the infants not being able to chose for themselves... ?
Try Calvin's Institutes Book IV Chapter 16
tragic_pizza
New Member
Yup. That's what I was answering.
Chipsgirl --
I will do what I can to answer your question. I have a unique view of the two denominations, having been both Baptist and Presbyterian for many years (though obviously not at the same time).
First some disclosure… I grew up and was baptized in a Baptist Church. I sat under some wonderful Baptist teachers and preachers for more than 20 years, including my own dad who was a Baptist preacher (he went home to be with our Lord just last year). I have a lot of family and friends who are Baptists (hence my Baptist Board name) and I always attend a Baptist church when I go back "home." However for close to 20 years, I have been an active member of a Presbyterian church and I am an ordained deacon within the Presbyterian Church of America.
Both Presbyterians and Baptists agree on the essentials of the Christian faith: the inspiration and the authority of the Scriptures, the Trinity, the virgin birth, the blood atonement, and that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone - just to name a few.
However, there are some differences between the two and I have listed them below in no specific order. I'm sure there are more differences, but these are the ones that come to mind. To be fair, I have attempted to simply list each view without prejudice. I would be happy to answer any questions you/others may have.
1. Church Government:
Baptist - Congregational, autonomous, no formal link to other churches
Presbyterian - Representative, ruled by elders, formal links to other churches within the denomination
2. Church Services:
Baptist - usually less formal. Most services normally end with an invitation to come forward. Think Charles Stanley.
Presbyterian - usually more formal, with creeds, confessions, responsive readings, etc. Think D. James Kennedy. However, many evangelical Presbyterian churches tend to be less formal and you might find little difference between the two church services (except for the lack of an invitation).
3. Theology:
Baptist - normally Dispensational; may be new Covenant Theology
Presbyterian - Covenant Theology
4. Eschatology:
Baptist - normally, pre-trib, pre-mil
Presbyterian - May be amillenial or historical premillenial; also, may be partial preterist as well. Not a major issue in most Presbyterian churches.
5. Baptism:
Baptist - An ordinance. Believers only by immersion only
Presbyterian - A sacrament. Believers and their children; by pouring, sprinkling or immersion
6. Lord's Table:
Baptist - an ordinance - memorial service only; normally does not happen very often and is a closed table (usually open to only those church members or other Baptists)
Presbyterian - a sacrament - a means of God's grace; normally occurs more often, though not every week and is open to all Christians present
7. View of Salvation:
Baptist - ranges from strongly Arminian to Calvinistic; from what I've experienced personally - closer to the Arminian position
Presbyterian - Calvinistic
8. Confessions:
Baptist - not a confessional church, but may refer to the London Confession (but probably not)
Presbyterian - holds to doctrines defined in the Westminster Confession of Faith and the Larger & Shorter Catechisms
9. Social/Political Issues:
Baptist - normally more conservative
Presbyterian - normally less conservative; normally these issues are not addressed from the pulpit
10. Scholarship/Education (note: I hesitate to include this, but from what I have seen, this is true):
Baptist - varies from pastor to pastor and church to church. Some ordained pastors have considerable education, while others do not.
Presbyterian - Pastors must always have both a four-year degree plus a seminary degree before ordination.
11. Calling to Ministers:
Baptist - by the local church only
Presbyterian - by the local church, plus qualifications and doctrines are approved by the elders in other local Presbyterian churches (ie the Presbytery)
I will do what I can to answer your question. I have a unique view of the two denominations, having been both Baptist and Presbyterian for many years (though obviously not at the same time).
First some disclosure… I grew up and was baptized in a Baptist Church. I sat under some wonderful Baptist teachers and preachers for more than 20 years, including my own dad who was a Baptist preacher (he went home to be with our Lord just last year). I have a lot of family and friends who are Baptists (hence my Baptist Board name) and I always attend a Baptist church when I go back "home." However for close to 20 years, I have been an active member of a Presbyterian church and I am an ordained deacon within the Presbyterian Church of America.
Both Presbyterians and Baptists agree on the essentials of the Christian faith: the inspiration and the authority of the Scriptures, the Trinity, the virgin birth, the blood atonement, and that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone - just to name a few.
However, there are some differences between the two and I have listed them below in no specific order. I'm sure there are more differences, but these are the ones that come to mind. To be fair, I have attempted to simply list each view without prejudice. I would be happy to answer any questions you/others may have.
1. Church Government:
Baptist - Congregational, autonomous, no formal link to other churches
Presbyterian - Representative, ruled by elders, formal links to other churches within the denomination
2. Church Services:
Baptist - usually less formal. Most services normally end with an invitation to come forward. Think Charles Stanley.
Presbyterian - usually more formal, with creeds, confessions, responsive readings, etc. Think D. James Kennedy. However, many evangelical Presbyterian churches tend to be less formal and you might find little difference between the two church services (except for the lack of an invitation).
3. Theology:
Baptist - normally Dispensational; may be new Covenant Theology
Presbyterian - Covenant Theology
4. Eschatology:
Baptist - normally, pre-trib, pre-mil
Presbyterian - May be amillenial or historical premillenial; also, may be partial preterist as well. Not a major issue in most Presbyterian churches.
5. Baptism:
Baptist - An ordinance. Believers only by immersion only
Presbyterian - A sacrament. Believers and their children; by pouring, sprinkling or immersion
6. Lord's Table:
Baptist - an ordinance - memorial service only; normally does not happen very often and is a closed table (usually open to only those church members or other Baptists)
Presbyterian - a sacrament - a means of God's grace; normally occurs more often, though not every week and is open to all Christians present
7. View of Salvation:
Baptist - ranges from strongly Arminian to Calvinistic; from what I've experienced personally - closer to the Arminian position
Presbyterian - Calvinistic
8. Confessions:
Baptist - not a confessional church, but may refer to the London Confession (but probably not)
Presbyterian - holds to doctrines defined in the Westminster Confession of Faith and the Larger & Shorter Catechisms
9. Social/Political Issues:
Baptist - normally more conservative
Presbyterian - normally less conservative; normally these issues are not addressed from the pulpit
10. Scholarship/Education (note: I hesitate to include this, but from what I have seen, this is true):
Baptist - varies from pastor to pastor and church to church. Some ordained pastors have considerable education, while others do not.
Presbyterian - Pastors must always have both a four-year degree plus a seminary degree before ordination.
11. Calling to Ministers:
Baptist - by the local church only
Presbyterian - by the local church, plus qualifications and doctrines are approved by the elders in other local Presbyterian churches (ie the Presbytery)
tragic_pizza
New Member
F.O.S., the only thing I would add is that an invitation may be offered at a Presbyterian service, though admittedly it is the exception and not the rule. The PC(USA) Book of Order actually prescribes a "time of decision" be offered in the worship service.
Thanks for the addition - I agree. Sometimes we do this, though not very often as most sermons are not evangelistic in nature.
FriendofSpurgeon, that was a very complete, informative, and thought out post.
BTW, when I saw that, for "View of Salvation", you said "Presbyterian - Calvinistic", I chuckled, because I figured everyone knew that.... the Presbyterian church was founded by John Calvin!!!
But, not everyone knew that.
BTW, it should be noted that mainline calvinism should not be confused with hypercalvinism.
BTW, when I saw that, for "View of Salvation", you said "Presbyterian - Calvinistic", I chuckled, because I figured everyone knew that.... the Presbyterian church was founded by John Calvin!!!
BTW, it should be noted that mainline calvinism should not be confused with hypercalvinism.