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Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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Steve Allen said:
I hold to exactly zero of the five points of Calvinism, so...no thanks. :)

But I do enjoy hearing the acapella music. (We Orthodox don't use instruments, either, and for largely the same reason.)

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Well just this morning I was excited to learn that there is a very good Primitive Baptist Church in Winter Garden FL, where my son is moving.....I might be encouraged to move there too.

wintergardenpbc.com
 
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Yeshua1

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Earth Wind and Fire said:
No, I don't need....nor do any of us need a go between, to tell us what God is about. Jesus has taken away that broker; He is telling us that God is totally accessible so why do I need some human intervention to punish & correct behavior when I have God the Father, The Son Christ & the Holy Spirit to convict the individual? Certainly there is no church on the planet that could have ever have changed me.....It was God that accomplished that by his saving grace. And the Kingdom of God is in your midst (Luke 17:21).

That is why I indicated that God is available & accessible to anyone who asks....even sometimes to some who could care less & that is what I was stressing with this Baptist thing......Both John the Baptist & Christ are emphasizing that God is as available to you as water and God can raise up children from stones (Matthew 3:8)
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You do know that when s church refuses to discpline within its own ranks, would be disobeying Lord jesus, and would in sin!
 
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Martin Marprelate

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Steve Allen said:
@Earth Wind and Fire

I think the confusion here arises from the fact that for the most part modern services are fairly non-exclusive. Anyone can come and go as they please, and it's considered extremely rude to ask anyone to leave unless they are causing some disruption.

Traditionally, both in the early days and up until very recently pretty much anyone (even the heretics) could show up at first and hear the Word, but there would come a point in the proceedings where the preaching and teaching of the Word was over. Then all who were not "of the Faithful" would be asked to leave/escorted out, the doors would be closed, and the Eucharist (aka communion) would then be celebrated.

There is a part in the Divine Liturgy as it is currently constituted that reflects this, where after the homily and certain prayers for the Catechumen and others, the Deacon intones, "Let the catechumen depart! Depart! Let none of the catechumen remain! As many as are of the Faithful, again and again in peace let us pray to the Lord...."

Then a couple of litanies for the Faithful, and some hymns, are sung. Then the head Deacon makes a "final check" instruction to the doorkeepers*: "The doors! The doors!" (Meaning, "guard the doors and don't let anyone else in.") Then, once he's sure everything is in order, he intones, "In wisdom let us attend," and the Mystery continues with those remaining confessing their One Faith by the Creed.

(* "doorkeeper" was and technically still is (although it's become less formal) an actual Order of ministry, albeit a minor one.)

"Of the Faithful" was defined as those who had been Baptized and not excommunicated.

Here is a link with more information: Dismissal of the Catechumens: more on Part V of the series…

So there is a winnowing process as the service moves forward. All are invited to hear the Word preached, but when it comes to communion, it's exclusive not on "saved or unsaved" but on "baptized and keeping the Faith" or not, as judged by the whole Church including (especially) one's own conscience, particularly in the context of the particular relationship with your spiritual father/confessor/elder, who is responsible to the largest extent for your growth in Christ.

Note that these are objective measures, outwardly known (or at least potentially so -- for nothing is hid that won't be revealed, and a man's conscience knows regardless). Unlike "saved or unsaved" which won't ultimately be known until the final judgment.
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You're welcome to run your church any way you want, but I see nothing especially Biblical in this. The only time the doors were shut in the NT it was 'for fear of the Jews' (John 20:19 and presumably Acts 12:12-16).
The case you mentioned of the fellow living in adultery -- if it became known, he would have been excommunicated unless/until he repented, and even with repentance probably barred from the chalice for some period of time until he had shown by his life and works that his repentance was sincere. ("Bring forth works meet for repentance.") Likewise with the drug-pushers you mentioned.

This would all be under the direction of the bishop, ultimately, although the immediate ministry of this discipline and its attendant instructions and prohibitions would be carried out by the spiritual father/confessor and/or the head presbyter of the assembly (assuming that isn't the Bishop himself, of course).

And they were much more severe about these things in the early days than they are today! See Acts 5, for example. :)
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Church discipline is a necessity, but so is restoration. Compare 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 with 2 Corinthians 2:6-11.
 
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Yeshua1

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Martin Marprelate said:
You're welcome to run your church any way you want, but I see nothing especially Biblical in this. The only time the doors were shut in the NT it was 'for fear of the Jews' (John 20:19 and presumably Acts 12:12-16).

Church discipline is a necessity, but so is restoration. Compare 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 with 2 Corinthians 2:6-11.
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Yes, as the real purpose in the discipline would be to affect the retoration of the sinning Christian!
And never heard of the church asking folks to leave them during the service either...
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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Yeshua1 said:
Yes, as the real purpose in the discipline would be to affect the retoration of the sinning Christian!
And never heard of the church asking folks to leave them during the service either...
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Because Joe Biden supports abortion, the Bishop of Scranton barred him from the sacraments

I don’t see the former VP of the USA getting aggravated by it.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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Yeshua1 said:
Kicked out.ex commuinicated, shunned by fellow Christians untill, they repend and get restored!
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Come on... a person could go to another church then w/o regard to the prior church. That punishment has no teeth... or perhaps you don’t even care. It really doesn’t matter... it only matters that Christ forgives you. It’s exactly Christ’s and Johnny Dunk Them’s point, Matthew 3:16, “Grace” cannot be manufactured from beneath; it always comes from beyond, from no certain place, otherwise it isn’t grace. Really, you are not going to change a guy just by pressuring him or throwing the guy outa a church. It is the Holy Spirit that changes him and funny but it usually comes during a time your deep into your sins.

What you should do is go to a couple of AA meetings... the speaker meetings specifically and observe. In these meetings, alcoholics are asked to give their testimonies, oh and some of them are God awful. You wonder why they inflicted such pain on themselves and others. Then they will tell you that they had to admit that they were sick in sin and need their Higher Power to intervene... I think that’s their 1st step to recovery.
 
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Yeshua1

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Earth Wind and Fire said:
Come on... a person could go to another church then w/o regard to the prior church. That punishment has no teeth... or perhaps you don’t even care. It really doesn’t matter... it only matters that Christ forgives you. It’s exactly Christ’s and Johnny Dunk Them’s point, Matthew 3:16, “Grace” cannot be manufactured from beneath; it always comes from beyond, from no certain place, otherwise it isn’t grace. Really, you are not going to change a guy just by pressuring him or throwing the guy outa a church. It is the Holy Spirit that changes him and funny but it usually comes during a time your deep into your sins.

What you should do is go to a couple of AA meetings... the speaker meetings specifically and observe. In these meetings, alcoholics are asked to give their testimonies, oh and some of them are God awful. You wonder why they inflicted such pain on themselves and others. Then they will tell you that they had to admit that they were sick in sin and need their Higher Power to intervene... I think that’s their 1st step to recovery.
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Soi if a married man, say the Pastor, was caught in adultery, and refused to repent and forsake the sinning, you would just smile and say the grace of God covers your sins?
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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Yeshua1 said:
Soi if a married man, say the Pastor, was caught in adultery, and refused to repent and forsake the sinning, you would just smile and say the grace of God covers your sins?
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That is between him and his wife. What did Christ do to the adulterous women? I’d also not take any instruction from him about family and marriage. Didn’t you say with regards to Trump not to judge?
 
terrpn

terrpn

Active Member
Earth Wind and Fire said:
adultery, pornography, drunkeness, drug abusing, gossiping, basically the known deadly sins. You think that just because they "TELL YOU" they are born again that sinful activity just goes away? If so, are you interested in some swamp land in south jersey?:Sneaky
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God saves your soul, not your body or the flesh.

Which is a good reason to have a good diet of prayer, reading the scripture and church attendance.

Otherwise the flesh is weak......


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Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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terrpn said:
God saves your soul, not your body or the flesh.

Which is a good reason to have a good diet of prayer, reading the scripture and church attendance.

Otherwise the flesh is weak......


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However I was referring to church people
 
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