Baptists and the Tongues issue

Who said anything about being possessed in order to be attacked by satan? I believe if a believer wants to experience something, whether from the Lord or not, God can allow it.

You said it happened to you. What language were you speaking? Who interpreted, if done in front of others who speak your native tongue? Who were you sharing the Gospel with in THEIR language, not having ever spoken that language before? THIS is what tongues is, any gibberish done in a pentecostal church is anything but.

 

Liubeet moi Eesoos menya, eta tvordo znayoo Ya.

Phonetically in Russian, that translates into "Loves my Jesus me, this truth know I." Rearrange the words in the order English-speaking people use, and you can recognize the children's hymn "Jesus Loves Me, This I Know".

Every Russian old enough to speak would understand what I said. Not just one person, but an enormous number of people would be able to verify what I said.

Asalaam Alaikum "Peace be unto you" in Arabic--able to be understood clearly by many Arabs, not just one person.

Shalom "Peace" in Hebrew--verifiable by many, not just one.

Mir "Peace" in Russian--understood by all Russians who are old enough to comprehend language.

Real language, not babble. Verifiable by many, not just one person. If only one person on the face of the earth can translate it, how can one be sure it isn't utter deceit. "Ne trudna" (not the truth). I need to understand in my own tongue the Word of God, who God is, and what He expects of me, or of what benefit is speech if you can't understand it? It was bad enough in the Dark Ages when the hierarchy in the church didn't allow people to read the Bible or hear preaching in their own tongue--let alone babble of no spiritual benefit to anyone. Tongues=languages. We use language to communicate, not to confuse.

Ciela

 

I'm not really sure what you are talking about is tongues. Tongues, biblically, were unknown languages to the speaker, but know languages to the hearer. It's one thing to know many languages and speak them, but this is not what the gift of "tongues" is.

 

Not getting into this debate, per se, but welcome to the BB, Ciela. :wavey: By the way, do you have a 'hard hat' at your disposal and handy?:laugh:

Ed

 

Tongues "biblically, were unknown languages to the speaker, but know languages to the hearer".

Exactly, webdog. The preachers preached in their own language, right? But the hearers heard in their own various languages.

Very cool. It is absolutely awesome how the gospel was perpetuated (by being totally understood!) in this miraculous way.

I love this part of Scripture, because it was a phenomenon totally of God. I don't like what people have made of it though. Cretes and Arabians heard this preaching in Cretian and Arabic (not babble). If you and I had been there, we would have miraculously understood in English! Again, that is cool--for lack of a better word.

(My post was attempting to clarify that tongues means "language", and I should've clarified that the gift of tongues was being able to preach in your own language while the hearers heard in theirs.) They weren't preaching "blah, blah, blah" and the hearers didn't hear "blah, blah, blah", but the words preached and the words heard were in clearly understood language.

Ciela

 

If it does I hope the trend makes it's way Down Under. Plenty of tonguesist Churches out there for them to choose from....

 

Gotcha. I misunderstood what you were saying, and I agree. You have brought up an interesting view that I have not thought about before. I always understood tongues to be that the speaker miraculously spoke in the hearer's native tongue, but you have brought up an interesting option to that.

I always assumed that I, speaking english, if confronted with Juan Valdez picking his coffee beans on a hillside in Mexico (I love coffee!), I would be able to share the Gospel with him in Spanish, his native tongue.

You have suggested that in this same situation, instead of speaking spanish, I would be speaking english...but he would be hearing spanish. Is this correct? This would be equally miraculous, and something I have not thought about before.

*edit* After going back and reading the Scripture, I believe it would have had to be other languages, and not just heard in other languages.

 

How about "wrong" and not for lack of a better word.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

Again, you are wrong. The gift is in the being able to SPEAK (TONGUES) in the hearers language. Don't let your disdain for what tongues has become prompt you to twist the Word of God. In so doing, you're practicing what you're preaching against.

 

Hmmm, so you're saying that God gave them the gift to actually speak Arabic, Cretian, and whatever other languages spoken by all in the audience--like saying the same message however many times needed for everyone present to understand? Never thought of that, but it does make good sense. I acquiesce to that, but never to babbling incoherently and thinking it is of God. Comprehendable, understandable, real and verifiable (and can be by several people) language. I grew up across from a deaf mute club, and even they didn't ever wave their hands like madmen--they were communicating specifically and clearly to one another.

Either way, tongues in Scripture is miraculous. Languages are somewhat difficult to learn, some more than others--most especially for older people (but not for children/early teens). And for someone with no prior knowledge of other languages to suddenly be able to preach in as many as necessary according to the number of languages spoken by the audience is absolutely amazing.

However it occurred, the audience understood and was benefited.

People from every nation, tribe, and tongue will one day be in Heaven. Real nations, real tribes, real tongues, (not something unintelligible babbled in the swelling emotion of the moment). Emotions, feelings, all that is so temporary (and can be quite deceptive--hopefully we aren't relying on our feelings to gauge our spiritual state, or to make important decisions surely!)

I am concerned with how tongues is viewed (and attemptedly practiced) today. It is unrecognizable from a Scriptural standpoint. 1 Corinthians 13 mentions tongues--and is very interesting to consider if anyone would like to comment on it.

Ciela

 

If the gift were in the hearing, what would be the need for an interpreter?

 

Point taken. I will agree with you then that according to the Scripture you quoted a couple posts back that they were given the ability from the Holy Spirit to speak in other languages. Thank you for the adjustment in my thinking here.

The whole point of this gift was to perpetuate the gospel. Plainly.

But anyway, time for me to let others discuss this, or I'll just keep on repeating myself that scripturally, tongues were NOT incoherent, but clearly preaching the gospel--understandable and of eternal benefit.

Isn't it interesting that when parents don't want their children to understand something, they give eachother parent LOOKS or s-p-e-l-l words out. We should want people to understand the gospel and to understand ministry, should we not? What is the benefit of being un-understandable?

Sincerely,
Ciela

 

I agree with you in that tongues speakers in many churches are out of order according to scripture. Nevertheless, I believe tongues is for our time, for the church age, and that it must be practiced accordingly. Paul gave instructions in his letter to the church of Corinth about how one with that gift should use it.

Unfortunately, just like in Paul's day, we have some in the church who use it as some badge or sign of superior faith, etc. Then we have some who teach that speaking in tongues is a sign of being "baptized with the Holy Ghost." So who wouldn't want that? What happens? People desire this baptism and you know what happens next.

I believe in tongues. But there is a divine order in which it is to be practiced.

 

:wavey: God bless you!

 

A story about hearing.

Two Chinese people, an instructor and a girl, were walking down the street in China and overheard a conversation of some students. The girl said to the instructor, why they're talking about Jesus Christ and I'll just go witness to them. She did and all five students accepted the Lord Jesus Christ. Now I heard about this occurrence three months after it happened by getting an e-mail from the instructor. And in that e-mail the instructor told me, the students were not speaking about the Lord Jesus Christ, no way is that possible I was standing right there and clearly heard what they were saying but ,Miranda that's the girl's name, insisted that they were speaking about Jesus Christ. And she went and witnessed and all five accepted. The instructor concluded his e-mail by writing "unbelievable."
These two people the instructor and the girl were saved during a missionary trip I made to China in the year 2000.
Well that's the story, you be the judge.

 

Yes, I can agree with that. I wasn't trying to be ugly - really, I wasn't. I guess I should have asked more specifically: so you think it is one spirit or another, but not possibly some self-deluded psychological thing (that some claim it to be)?

I know it wasn't the tongues used to witness in another language. It was the supposed "prayer language" or gibberish as it's called. I believe I said that.

I'm not here to argue with anybody, and wish I hadn't shared my story. I was just seeking honest answers and opinions. I'm a Baptist, and I'm not crazy. I just shared what happened to me, wondering how it could have happened if not the gift I thought it was.

 

Help me out here. I have watched a lot of Christian TV, particularly TBN. On occasion, I have seen preachers, in the middle of their sermons, break into tongues, then resume their sermon. I have never--ever--seen them stop and ask for an interpretation. Nor have I ever seen anyone offer to interpret what the preacher just said.

Have any of you? Were they wrong?