My "tongue in cheek" response is we all believe that The Godhead saved and redeemed us, but we Calvinist have a better soteriology on exactly what the scriptures teach on this, but all saved are saved regardless if 5 pointers or not
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Baptists are Not Protestants.
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Another thing that you could say gives most of you the advantage, especially in Christian history, is the fact that I don't gather any information whatsoever from the internet.
My interests in Christianity are very limited, unlike many. I've spent my entire adult life studying the Scripture, and have only scratched the surface.
My hands are full with learning God's Word, it's all I care about anymore.
On that we agree, except for the Calvinist better understanding, lol.
But we can set aside our differences and times, I think the Lord smiles on such.
May I recommend a book to you? Spurgeon versus Hyper-Calvinism by Iain Murray, published by Banner of Truth. It is a fascinating read and will show you that there were at least two versions of Calvinism.
I found this on line: https://www.spurgeongems.org/sermon/chs002.pdf It's not the book, but an extract from Spurgeon's autobiography.
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I have the Morning and Evening devotional, and The Life and Works of Charles Haddon Spurgeon, by Dr. Henry D. Northrop, which was a birthday gift from an old friend who happened to be a Calvinist.
A "one point" calvinist is an arminian deceiving himself.
Not sure what "one" point can be held while rejecting the other "four". Lots of good discussion on that forum if interested. Here is a simple thumbnail (NOT meant for discussion here) in lay terms about my salvation:Role of man in salvation = nothing, no ability to do/think/will any righteous thing
Role of the Father in salvation = select from incapable, fallen, hell-bound man a bride for His Son
Role of the Son in salvation = fully atone for the sins of those selected (while having general benefit on all creation)
Role of the Spirit in salvation = work unseen, giving repentance and faith to those selected and atoned for
Role of the triune godhead = preserve and keep those selected for eternity
A "one point" calvinist is an arminian deceiving himself.
Role of man in salvation = nothing, no ability to do/think/will any righteous thing
Role of the Father in salvation = select from incapable, fallen, hell-bound man a bride for His Son
Role of the Son in salvation = fully atone for the sins of those selected (while having general benefit on all creation)
Role of the Spirit in salvation = work unseen, giving repentance and faith to those selected and atoned for
Role of the triune godhead = preserve and keep those selected for eternity
Free will cancels out the other 4, Dr. Bob.
The remaining 4 points are like domino's, take one down and they all go down.
Anyone touting "free will" is sadly, eternally mistaken. Often "willingly" mistaken. Man is not God last time I checked, especially in regards to the soul's salvation.
"If it's going to be, it's up to me", is the bumper sticker of hell.
If anyone wants a discussion on the bondage of the human will, read Martin Luther's tome, then ask to start a new topic on the BB on who started the myth of man's so-called "free" will.
"If it's going to be, it's up to me", is the bumper sticker of hell.
If anyone wants a discussion on the bondage of the human will, read Martin Luther's tome, then ask to start a new topic on the BB on who started the myth of man's so-called "free" will.
Anyone touting "free will" is sadly, eternally mistaken. Often "willingly" mistaken. Man is not God last time I checked, especially in regards to the soul's salvation.
"If it's going to be, it's up to me", is the bumper sticker of hell.
If anyone wants a discussion on the bondage of the human will, read Martin Luther's tome, then ask to start a new topic on the BB on who started the myth of man's so-called "free" will.
I'm sorry that we disagree, Dr. Bob, but disagree we do!
2 Thes. 2:10-12
"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
They sent themselves to hell because they chose not to receive the truth! Plain and simple.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
But that free will is affected by the total depravity, which you said you accept. How can somebody whose will is affected by his total depravity believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? Paul wrote:
“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1Co 2:14 NKJV)
There's only one thing on this earth that can break the boundaries of man's total depravity.
The Holy Spirit with conviction and truth when the Gospel is heard.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
I agree. And we are told that the natural many cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God. So something must happen to change a sinner dead in trespasses and sins. That is something God does. As Paul explains:
“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised [us] up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,” (Eph 2:1-8 NKJV)
There you go, Brother, you got it!
It's the Holy Spirit that searches us out, He is also the One who sends me and you to give the Gospel and does the following.
John 16:7-9
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on me;"
It is the function of the holy Spirit of God to give repentance and faith, regenerating and changing the dead will and fallen spirit (totally incapable of doing anything right like repenting and believing the Gospel) into a new creation! It takes the new birth by the Spirit. 100% HIS action on me.
What does a baby in the womb DO to get born the first time? It is the passive recipient of all the action of its mother. ZERO will/work on own.
What does a person DO to get born again? It is the passive recipient of all the action of the Spirit of God. You must BE born again (not "do").
Nick at night couldn't understand how being born again was NOT something he could "do". Thankfully, Jesus patiently explained the parallel with the physical birth and taught it was the invisible work of the Spirit (like the wind) happening. We see the result = hallelujah - but can't see this invisible regenerating work of God.
IF one believes point one of "calvinism" - that man is dead, totally incapable of doing one thing to get born again - then salvation HAS to be 100% the work of God, not man. Hard pill to swallow when we think we CAN do something. We can WANT (nope). We can SEEK (nope). We can CHANGE (nope). We can rely on magic water or magic wine or magic church (nope).
Salvation is of the Lord 100% or if even a little from me, I have reason to boast. Nope.
What does a baby in the womb DO to get born the first time? It is the passive recipient of all the action of its mother. ZERO will/work on own.
What does a person DO to get born again? It is the passive recipient of all the action of the Spirit of God. You must BE born again (not "do").
Nick at night couldn't understand how being born again was NOT something he could "do". Thankfully, Jesus patiently explained the parallel with the physical birth and taught it was the invisible work of the Spirit (like the wind) happening. We see the result = hallelujah - but can't see this invisible regenerating work of God.
IF one believes point one of "calvinism" - that man is dead, totally incapable of doing one thing to get born again - then salvation HAS to be 100% the work of God, not man. Hard pill to swallow when we think we CAN do something. We can WANT (nope). We can SEEK (nope). We can CHANGE (nope). We can rely on magic water or magic wine or magic church (nope).
Salvation is of the Lord 100% or if even a little from me, I have reason to boast. Nope.
Salvation is most definitely 100% of the Lord! All I did was say, Yes Lord Jesus I know I'm a sinner, have mercy on me! That was my response as a young teenager sitting in the pew one night in my IFB Church.
The Holy Spirit convicted me, and made it clear through the words spoken by the Evangelist that I was a sinner in need of Savior. I felt it in my being, I just sat there in the pew not knowing what to do, this had never happened before. And I was raised in that Church from a child.
The Evangelist said, "If you felt in your heart that Lord has spoken to you, come down this aisle, The Spirit says come, whosoever will let him come and take the water of life freely." And so I did!
I had no part in my salvation, I just answered the call when He stretched out His hand for me. He searched me out in His own timing and showed me who I was and what the cure was. I made a choice there on the spot.
It's all about His mercy and grace, and none of us.
Heb. 3:15-19
"While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."
They heard His voice (spiritually speaking) and hardened their hearts in unbelief, rejecting Him, and we see that was the reason God would not accept them. They went to Hell in unbelief of their own choice, hardening their hearts against God.
It's true of all five points. They all stand together. Four pointers are not Calvinists.
That's called Irresistible Grace.