Baptists becoming Bishops!

[lori4dogs]

Wow, this seems to be a trend among many Bapitsts. I'd be interested in your thoughts.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...re_baptist_pastors_adopt_bishop_title/?page=1

 

[lori4dogs]

Southern Baptist Bishop’s mitre’s would be ball-caps with ‘Bishop’ on the front in either John Deere Green, or their college football team’s colours. Since ball-caps are a no-no (just ask any deacon or usher) in the church-house, it will be a long wait to see a Southern Baptist Bishop in vestments!

 

[Dr. Walter]

Southern Baptist Bishop’s mitre’s would be ball-caps with ‘Bishop’ on the front in either John Deere Green, or their college football team’s colours. Since ball-caps are a no-no (just ask any deacon or usher) in the church-house, it will be a long wait to see a Southern Baptist Bishop in vestments!

Lori, if you will just take a look at Acts 20:17 and 28 you will see that the term "episkopos" translated "overseer" in verse 28 is applied to the same persons that are termed "presbuteros" or "elders" and those who "feed" or "pastor" the flock. The variety of titles are applied to the same office because of the variety of responsibilities attached to that office.

 

[annsni]

Wow, this seems to be a trend among many Bapitsts. I'd be interested in your thoughts.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...re_baptist_pastors_adopt_bishop_title/?page=1

I'd certainly not use the term "a trend among many Baptists" since this is a very small fringe group who do this.

 

[Tom Butler]

My pastor wants people to just call him Preacher.

On occasion though, I'll address him as Bishop, which is perfectly proper. He knows I'm sorta teasing him.

I think a lot of Baptist pastors avoid Elder or Bishop because it sounds so pretentious. Depends on the motivation, I think. But it's not unbiblical.

 

[DHK]

Wow, this seems to be a trend among many Bapitsts. I'd be interested in your thoughts.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...re_baptist_pastors_adopt_bishop_title/?page=1

Read further into the article:

The title of bishop, accompanied by such emblems of authority, was uncommon among hierarchy-spurning Baptists until recently, but it is being adopted by a growing number of Baptist pastors, most of them African-American. Borders and other new bishops have acquired some of the ceremonial garb — croziers (pastoral staffs), zucchettos (skullcaps) and chasubles (robes) — that their spiritual forefathers left behind when they broke from the Church of England in the 17th century. Some, including Borders, have even embraced the doctrine of apostolic succession — the belief in an unbroken line from Jesus’ apostles to today’s bishops.

This passage and others further down show that this group of African-American believers, believe their roots stretch right back to the Apostles. Later they refer to the Old English terms used in the KJV in 1Tim.3. But their belief is that they have come right from the Apostolic times. That's older than the RCC.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

There was and is no sharp clergy/laity distinction in the New Testament church. Christ has always been and still is the only Head of His church.

 

[Tom Butler]

There was and is no sharp clergy/laity distinction in the New Testament church. Christ has always been and still is the only Head of His church.

I generally agree. Christ is the head of his church. He is the head of my church, and the church down the street.

However, we must deal with the fact that the Holy Spirit has placed one of more men within congregations to have rule over us. That man in my church is my pastor.

However, the form that rule takes varies from congregation to congregation. Some churches have what are called "strong pastors," who exercise both leadership and control of church affairs.

Other churches see their pastors as leaders, but more like "chief among equals." Leadership but not rule.

In each case, those churches would see Christ as the head.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

It is true that pastors, bishops, or elders are leaders of the church in the sense that they stand before the church and preach and teach God's word. They lead the charge as the congregation storms the gates of hell, but they are not above the congregation in an hierarchical fashion. Hierarchism is what the heathen practice (Mat. 20:25-28; 23:8-12).

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Here are a few observations:

Scholars cite a number of reasons: Baptists, like other Christian denominations, are facing heavy competition from independent churches, particularly those run by charismatic pastors who use the title of bishop to establish authority and build their personal brand.

“I think we see this emergence in spiritual leadership from a people who have known oppression,’’ Borders said. “It’s a self-identification that we’re gaining; it’s a valuing of our own leadership.’’

And in some cases now symbolic garb and elaborate rituals are accompanying the title. That’s now possible because the 400-year-old fear of an all-powerful hierarchy has faded into a distant memory, and it now feels “safer to borrow and reappropriate historic practices that once were considered to be theologically problematic,’’ said James Farwell, professor of religious studies at Bethany College in West Virginia.

“As the church grows and develops, it forces and gives birth to new titles,’’ Culpepper said. “It’s time for John to be promoted.’’

For such changes to be motivated from competition, eminance and ignorance seems on the whole utter folly to me. It appears to be actions of selfish ambition, pride and arrogance. While these men may delight in their own actions, the Lord will have no delight in such additions to worship of God that either neither found in Scirpture or commanded by God.

I do take the statement by James Farwell as a further indication of the need to educate and inform evangelicals regarding the history and baneful influence of the papacy and that the Reformation is not over.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

The spirit of Diotrephes is alive and well (III Jn. 9-11).

 

[Dr. Walter]

There is no position for a dictator in the Lord's churches (3 Jn 9). But the are positions of authority established by Christ in His church for leading, guiding, teaching, an directing the church and rebuking those who are in error. These responsibilities are specifically assigned by Christ to the office of Pastor separate and above the regular membership. They are designated as positions that "rule" and are "OVER" the flock in that sense. Hence, they are positions of delegated (which is limited and regulated) authority and therefore the metaphor "the head" can be fitly used to describe such as Paul does in 1 Cor. 12:21 just as he uses "the head" to describe the husband's position over the wife without violating or denying Christ as "the head" over the church.

 

[Jim1999]

I just want to be called Jim. My leadership abilities will be self-evident; I don't need a title to do that.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Dr. Walter]

I just want to be called Jim. My leadership abilities will be self-evident; I don't need a title to do that.

Cheers,

Jim

Hi Jim,

Nice to make your acquaintence.

 

[Jerome]

Even the 1689 London Baptist Confession speaks of "bishops or elders". Of course, what they meant by bishops is a far cry from the Episcopal-style monarchs being foisted upon a few Baptist churches like those in the OP. Likewise for the Presbyterian-derived ruling-elder oligarchies that have been recently installed within many Baptist churches.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

I have the utmost respect for men like Jim. He has the humility of Christ.