Baptist's have bishops and archbishops?

[trying2understand]

A google word search produces links to various websites which refer to Baptist bishops and archbishops?

What is that all about?

Has somebody been holding out on us?

 

[Yelsew]

No, baptists simply use other terms to mean the same thing.

Pastor for Priest
Area Representative for Bishop
President for Pope

Don't let it bother you, positional relationship is positional relationship.

The big difference is that the Pastors of Baptist churches are responsible to the local congregation and not to the President of the denomination. The local congregation through prayer and deliberation calls the pastor of their choice, though in a pastor's absence, an Area Rep or the President can send an interim pastor to assist the local congregation as a means to keep them together as a "flock".

The local congregation contributes an amount toward the maintenance of the Denomination in accordance with what the leadership of the local congregation determines they can contribute. There are no assigned apportionments.

The local congregation is normally an autonomous, self sufficient group that chooses to align with a denomination by their own choice.

 

[trying2understand]

Then what is a Baptist Archbishop?

Why are these terms used if they are purported not Scriptural according to most Baptists?

 

[dianetavegia]

I've been Baptist for 52 years and I've never heard those terms referring to Baptists.

Diane

 

[Yelsew]

The archbishop is the one standing in the arch watching all the other bishops bishopping!

These definitions are archaic, and only mark relative position in the organizational structure. Those in the Baptist organization holding those positions have essentially the same relative measure of responsibility to God as those occupying similar positions in other church denominations or factions. However, they do not have authority over those of lesser position except in the role of "judge" when charges are brought against one of a lower position. For example if a bishop has charges brought against him, the Archbishop would be the one to hear and decide the "case". A bishop would have the same role if a pastor within his area of responsibility had charges brought against him. A local pastor has that role when a member of his congregation has charges brought against him.

Now what if the Archbishop has charges brought against him? A council of Bishops would determine who would act in the Archbishop role among them for the purpose of administering the proceedings, then if the charges are substantiated, the council would remove the charged Archbishop and by vote of all bishops would elect a replacement archbishop.

Hierarchy is hierarchy!

 

[dianetavegia]

A websearch off the SBC brought up nothing but a websearch under Bishop brought up a number of African American churches who call their pastor's bishop. However, I didn't find a Baptist affiliation with bishop listed.

There were some Baptist NEWS links to protests over Bishop Tutu speaking at schools.

Diane

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Yelsew:
The archbishop is the one standing in the arch watching all the other bishops bishopping!

These definitions are archaic, and only mark relative position in the organizational structure.

Archaic as in historical?

Am I to take it then that the Baptist church has changed over time and dropped these things?

Those in the Baptist organization holding those positions have essentially the same relative measure of responsibility to God as those occupying similar positions in other church denominations or factions. However, they do not have authority over those of lesser position except in the role of "judge" when charges are brought against one of a lower position. For example if a bishop has charges brought against him, the Archbishop would be the one to hear and decide the "case". A bishop would have the same role if a pastor within his area of responsibility had charges brought against him. A local pastor has that role when a member of his congregation has charges brought against him.

Now what if the Archbishop has charges brought against him? A council of Bishops would determine who would act in the Archbishop role among them for the purpose of administering the proceedings, then if the charges are substantiated, the council would remove the charged Archbishop and by vote of all bishops would elect a replacement archbishop.

Hierarchy is hierarchy!

Well, it sure sounds like a lot of hierarchy for a church that is supposedly without hierarchy.

Anymore little Baptist secrets?

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
A websearch off the SBC brought up nothing but a websearch under Bishop brought up a number of African American churches who call their pastor's bishop. However, I didn't find a Baptist affiliation with bishop listed.

There were some Baptist NEWS links to protests over Bishop Tutu speaking at schools.

Diane

So then only churches that belong to the SBC are Baptist?

BTW, why the distinction with African America churches? Are they not Baptist if they hold to the distinctives?


Try doing a search on goolge using baptist, bishop, archbishop.

 

[BrianT]

I've *never* understood why KJV-only Baptist churches don't have "bishops".

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Originally posted by BrianT:
I've *never* understood why KJV-only Baptist churches don't have "bishops".

Well, I've never understood why KJV-onlyists are Baptist to begin with, since it was the Anglicans that gave us the KJV Bible.

 

[Yelsew]

Archaic as in historical?

Am I to take it then that the Baptist church has changed over time and dropped these things?

No, archaic in their application to Baptist denominations, since the Baptists have protested longer and harder than other protestant groups, and have gotten further away from the use of those terms to describe offices within the organization.

There may be hold-outs, as mentioned by dianetavegia, in the African oriented churches that still use the term Bishop, but I don't know of any that use the terms 'priest' or 'archbishop'.

The Baptists have simply used another language to describe themselves, but the organization remains quite similar to that of the Roman church, though all authority in a Baptist Church is that of Jesus Christ, and not of a person in a position within the organization structure. That is, "stuff don't roll down hill" nearly as easily in the Baptist organization as it does in the Catholic organization as there is no "parental authority" in the Baptist organization like that of Rome. The Baptist denominational organization can ex-communicate a congregation that goes astray of biblical teaching, but seldom, if ever, gets involved in the workings of the local congregation that does not illicit their assistance.

 

[Yelsew]

Well, it sure sounds like a lot of hierarchy for a church that is supposedly without hierarchy.

Anymore little Baptist secrets?

The point is that in the Baptist denominational churchs there is no "parental authority" exerted on the local "child" congregation by the next higher level in the hierarchy as there is in the Roman church. That is, the president of the denomination does not "create scripture or tradition" and impose it on the denomination as the Roman Pope does to the Catholic organization. The president may express his learned opinion regarding the written word of God and its application but it does not become "organizational doctrine" until and unless all who hear it accept it and apply it! The Roman church however is caused to have allegience to the Pope and all the Pope says because they see the Pope as being the living representation of "The Christ".

All church organizations that have such a "Parental authority" basis, are subject to falling under the "authority" of the False Prophet of Revelation, who forms a one world "church" which he, the false prophet, hands over to the man of perdition who is controlled by the "dragon" (satan for those of you who don't get the symbology). Church organizations that do not have such Parental controls are not as willing to follow a false prophet.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Yelsew:
The point is that in the Baptist denominational churchs there is no "parental authority" exerted on the local "child" congregation by the next higher level in the hierarchy as there is in the Roman church.

Not true. The SBC exercises control over supposedly autonomous Baptist churches by kicking them out out of the SBC if they don't comply with the latest doctrinal changes.

Women pastors is a good example. There have been women pastors in SBC churches for decades. One day the SBC has a vote and out go women pastors and eventually many Baptist churches that would not go along with this new doctrine handed down by the SBC.

 

[dianetavegia]

There have been women pastors in SBC churches for decades. One day the SBC has a vote and out go women pastors

Can you document this claim? I've never heard of a SBC Church with a woman pastor. It amazes me how a catholic is so aware of these oddities in the SBC and those of us who have been SBC for over 50 years are unaware.

Diane

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
Can you document this claim? I've never heard of a SBC Church with a woman pastor. It amazes me how a catholic is so aware of these oddities in the SBC and those of us who have been SBC for over 50 years are unaware.

Diane ]

I found this quote on a Baptist site and it got me to wondering. It should make you wonder too.

"According to the Midwestern Seminary survey ten state conventions have churches where women are pastoring Southern Baptist churches"

 

[dianetavegia]

Well please give me the link so I can report those churches and get them kicked right out of the SBC! Didn't your mother tell you not to believe everything you read on the internet?

"According to the Midwestern Seminary survey ten state conventions have churches where women are pastoring Southern Baptist churches"

This statement itself deems these churches to NOT be SBC. They might be Baptist churches in the southern states tho. I will take the link you provide and write the SBC and verify that information.

Diane

 

[Yelsew]

There have been many attempts over the many years that Baptists have existed to allow women to be the pastor of local congregations. To the best of my knowledge there has never been a doctrinal declaration given by a presiding president of any of the Baptist denominations that has excommunicated even one church because it had by its own will elected a woman as its pastor.

I have known several formerly SBC congregations that disavowed the denomination and become independents.

I have also known of two churches that, while aligned with the SBC, were excommunicated because they failed to remain biblical churches, but not over the issue of Women pastors. One of them openly practiced Wicca! And the second was involved in sexual immorality! Both were relatively small congregations that could easily be "swept up" into non-biblical practices.

Yes the SBC Denomination does have the power to say whether or not a church can become, and or remain SBC, but so does the local congregation have the power to disavow the denomination.

Unlike the Roman, the Wesleyan, and other denominations, the Baptist denominations do not own the real-estate of the local church nor does it have a say as to how it is used, but it does establish the standard for becoming and remaining SBC. This is kind of like becoming "a Christian", there is a standard established for the conduct of the one who would be "Christian", but the one can behave as one chooses. If the behavior does not meet the standard, then one is not looked upon as being "Christian". Churches that do not meet the SBC standard cannot be SBC.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Yelsew:

Unlike the Roman, the Wesleyan, and other denominations, the Baptist denominations do not own the real-estate of the local church nor does it have a say as to how it is used, but it does establish the standard for becoming and remaining SBC. This is kind of like becoming "a Christian", there is a standard established for the conduct of the one who would be "Christian", but the one can behave as one chooses. If the behavior does not meet the standard, then one is not looked upon as being "Christian". Churches that do not meet the SBC standard cannot be SBC.

And when the SBC changes the standard you comply or out you go.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Amoung our Black brethren, these titles are used in some congregations and associations. However, I have only heard the terms used humorously by a pastor whose church is located next door to the Chancery of the Archdiocese of San Francisco. But then as in Baptist usage, as a church's pastor, he is the church's overseer (bishop/episcopos). And as he is the senior pastor of the pastoral staff and further has other people in his congregation whose ministries he oversees, he functions as an "arch" bishop. Not that any of these titles are on any stationary or are used in anything other than a jocular way. (His writ ends at the property line so to speak.) From the point ecclesiastical protocol, this pastor is the diplomatic equivalent of the RC Archbishop of San Francisco. But, then so are the other Baptist pastors in town.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Squire Robertsson:
Amoung our Black brethren, these titles are used in some congregations and associations. However, I have only heard the terms used humorously by a pastor whose church is located next door to the Chancery of the Archdiocese of San Francisco. But then as in Baptist usage, as a church's pastor, he is the church's overseer (bishop/episcopos). And as he is the senior pastor of the pastoral staff and further has other people in his congregation whose ministries he oversees, he functions as an "arch" bishop. Not that any of these titles are on any stationary or are used in anything other than a jocular way. (His writ ends at the property line so to speak.) From the point ecclesiastical protocol, this pastor is the diplomatic equivalent of the RC Archbishop of San Francisco. But, then so are the other Baptist pastors in town.

So when I do a word search on baptist and archbishop or bishop, and a Baptist church website comes up which talks about their bishop or archbishop, it's just a joke? I don't think so.