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Baptists = Protestants?

Did the Baptists come from Protestants?

  • No, a true Baptist can trace lineage to the FBC of Jerusalem

    Votes: 2 4.4%
  • No, a true Baptist can trace lineage to the New Test times

    Votes: 3 6.7%
  • No, though not a direct lineage - there have always been baptistic churches

    Votes: 11 24.4%
  • Possibly Baptist churches in Europe did

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Somewhat - individuals of the Reformation eventually started Baptist churches

    Votes: 13 28.9%
  • Yes, at least in the US, Baptists came out of the Congregational Church

    Votes: 5 11.1%
  • Its not even an issue

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Not Sure

    Votes: 2 4.4%
  • Other answer

    Votes: 7 15.6%

  • Total voters
    45

Bro. James

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Praise the Lord for your input, Bro. Butler. According to the survey 66% are confused regarding Baptists and Protestants.

There are several still willing to stand up for our heritage--regardless of the opposition.

Even though the tempest is raging, our anchor will hold to the Solid Rock.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jerome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Cardinal Hosius, writing in the sixteenth century, admits that (credo)baptists were long persecuted by the RCC, and then by the 'Reformers' too:

"there shall be no faith more certain and true, than is the Anabaptists', seeing there be none now, or have been before time for the space of these thousand and two hundred years, who have been more cruelly punished, or that have more stoutly, steadfastly, cheerfully taken their punishment, yea or have offered themselves of their own accord to death, were it never so terrible and grievous. Yea in Saint Augustin his time, as he himself sayeth, there was a certain monstrous desire of death in them. . . . Neither was there such foolish hardy heretics in Saint Augustine his time only. For four hundred years ago, at what time St. Bernard lived, there were Anabaptists, which were no less prodigal to spend their life, then were the Donatists, some (saith he) did marvel that they were led to their deathe not only patiently but as it semed very frolic and merry.
...If you behold their cheerfulness in suffering persecutions, the Anabaptists run far before all other heretics. If you will have regard to the number, it is like that in multitude they would swarm above all other, if they were not grievously plagued and cut off with the knife of persecution. If you have an eye to the outward appearance of godliness, both the Lutherans and the Zwinglians must needs grant, that they far pass them.
...And surely how many so ever have written against this heresie, whether they were Catholics or Heretics, they were able to overthrow it not so much by the testimony of the scriptures, as by the authority of the Church."
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Where do you stand on the Baptist/Protestant issue


Would say that baptists were called that at a definite time/place in history, but that we were not really properily among the reformers/protestants, as our basic tenats/beliefs were being followed in early NT churches in Apostolic age, but were not officially labeled "baptist!"
 

Michaelt

Member
Site Supporter
I am a disciple and follower of Jesus Christ.

I am part of and worship at a Baptist Church.
I don't really consider myself a "baptist", although many would consider that splitting hairs. :)
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I am a disciple and follower of Jesus Christ.

I am part of and worship at a Baptist Church.
I don't really consider myself a "baptist", although many would consider that splitting hairs. :)

neither did Jesus and His merry men, but they were definite "baptist" in regards to doctrines!

That would be an interesting discussion, can one be a baptist in doctrine, and yet not attend a formally known baptist church?
 

Michaelt

Member
Site Supporter
neither did Jesus and His merry men, but they were definite "baptist" in regards to doctrines!

That would be an interesting discussion, can one be a baptist in doctrine, and yet not attend a formally known baptist church?

Interesting thought. You said that "they were definite "baptist" in regards to their doctrine". Would it not be more accurate to say that "baptists" conform to their doctrine, than them conforming to baptist doctrine? Historically, they were here before any baptists, yes? Well, except John the Baptist... LOL
 

12strings

Active Member
neither did Jesus and His merry men, but they were definite "baptist" in regards to doctrines!

I doubt you can call that group congregational...It was definitely led by a single Bishop/Overseer, with no congregational votes!!! Jesus regularly overrode their "Soul competency" and told them they were wrong, and I don't think we have records of the Disciple's Baptisms...

...Also, they used wine for communion!
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
...Also, they used wine for communion!

Definitely not Baptist! :smilewinkgrin:


Interesting thought. You said that "they were definite "baptist" in regards to their doctrine". Would it not be more accurate to say that "baptists" conform to their doctrine, than them conforming to baptist doctrine? Historically, they were here before any baptists, yes? Well, except John the Baptist... LOL
Excellent statement
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I doubt you can call that group congregational...It was definitely led by a single Bishop/Overseer, with no congregational votes!!! Jesus regularly overrode their "Soul competency" and told them they were wrong, and I don't think we have records of the Disciple's Baptisms...

...Also, they used wine for communion!

Hard to have room for any other titles in their group though, as Jesus already had taken those for prophet/priest/King! Also in in Lord and messiah, pretty much covered!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Definitely not Baptist! :smilewinkgrin:



Excellent statement

indeed, for we baptists would see ourselves as being the closest church group to what the "NT Church" really taught was practiced from the Apostles!
 

preachinjesus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You can't a) estbalish a singular, normative polity for church governance out if the NT, b) trace baptist(ic) groups back to Jesus ministry, or c) consider the relationship of Jesus and His disciples as an example of ecclesiology.

Please stop making silly statements.
 

12strings

Active Member
Paulitians, Novations, Albigenses, Lollards, Wyckliffites, Anabaptists,

The Novatianists were early Christians following Antipope Novatian, held a strict view that refused readmission to communion of Lapsi, those baptized Christians who had denied their faith or performed the formalities of a ritual sacrifice to the pagan gods, under the pressures of the persecution sanctioned by Emperor Decius, in AD 250...

...After his death, the Novatianist sect spread rapidly and could be found in every province, and were very numerous in some places...Rome also labeled Novatianists heretics for denying that the Church had the power to grant absolution in certain cases (such as to the Lapsi—those who had renounced their Christianity under persecution but later wanted to return to the church). Beyond that, their practices were the same as that of the Catholic Church, including monasticism in the fourth century.
-(Wikipedia)

ALSO..."Novatian had refused absolution to idolaters; his followers extended this doctrine to all "mortal sins" (idolatry, murder, and adultery, or fornication)."


Albigenses...Provençal adherents of a doctrine similar to the Manichaean dualistic system of material evil and spiritual good (see Manichaeism; Bogomils). They held the coexistence of these two principles, represented by God and the Evil One, light and dark, the soul and the body, the next life and this life, peace and war, and the like. They believed that Jesus only seemed to have a human body.

The Albigenses were extremely ascetic, abstaining from flesh in all its forms, including milk and cheese. They comprised two classes, believers and Perfect, the former much more numerous, making up a catechumenate not bound by the stricter rules observed by the Perfect. The Perfect were those who had received the sacrament of consolamentum, a kind of laying on of hands.
http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/society/albigenses-beliefs-practices.html#ixzz2Tfsbp9oC

Lollards...Although Lollardy can be said to have originated from interest in the writings of John Wycliffe, the Lollards had no central belief system and no official doctrine....Some Lollards may have shown traces of antitrinitarian tendency, though some 19th-century writers overemphasized this because they misconceived the ground of the Lollard rejection of the worship of the human Christ.[citation needed]
-(Wikipedia)

It seems there was never a perfect Baptistic church...even the Anabaptists were often shaky on Justification by faith, Christ's true humanity, the goodness of material things, and had tendancies toward charismatic practice.

I guess we Baptists don't have that perfect pedigree we wish we did.
 

MB

Well-Known Member
Where do you stand on the Baptist/Protestant issue

I'm a Baptist but I'm not a protestant. What I believe did not come out of the Catholic church. I do not protest the Catholic church because what they believe has no effect on what I believe.
According to some of the earliest Church fathers. I hold many of their beliefs which includes freewill.
MB
 

quantumfaith

Active Member
Well since my original post went unanswered I'll assume we're going to speak of the entire Reformation and all its movements.

Therefore, it is undeniable that Baptists arose from influences related to the Radical Reformation. Thus Baptists are, indeed, Protestants.

On a side note: I've never met a group more willing to protest anything...so I'd definitely say Baptists are Protest-ants.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
 

quantumfaith

Active Member
I doubt you can call that group congregational...It was definitely led by a single Bishop/Overseer, with no congregational votes!!! Jesus regularly overrode their "Soul competency" and told them they were wrong, and I don't think we have records of the Disciple's Baptisms...

...Also, they used wine for communion!

oops....definitely not baptist. :)
 

quantumfaith

Active Member
I'm a Baptist but I'm not a protestant. What I believe did not come out of the Catholic church. I do not protest the Catholic church because what they believe has no effect on what I believe.
According to some of the earliest Church fathers. I hold many of their beliefs which includes freewill.
MB

I am a protestant who worships as a baptist.
 

quantumfaith

Active Member
It seems there was never a perfect Baptistic church...even the Anabaptists were often shaky on Justification by faith, Christ's true humanity, the goodness of material things, and had tendancies toward charismatic practice.

I guess we Baptists don't have that perfect pedigree we wish we did.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You can't a) estbalish a singular, normative polity for church governance out if the NT, b) trace baptist(ic) groups back to Jesus ministry, or c) consider the relationship of Jesus and His disciples as an example of ecclesiology.

Please stop making silly statements.

but can point to that on the basis of both practices/doctrines, the early NT church under the Apostles leadership were "baptist like", even if not "real baptist!"
 

Luke2427

Active Member
SBC Founder R. B. C. Howell, 1846:

"Neither can we submit to be classed with those who, after casting off some of the shackles of Catholicism, denominated themselves Reformed churches. We call not our churches reformed, because we believe them no better than their predecessors. . . .we are not Protestants, nor Dissenters, Lutherans, Calvinists, Arminians, nor Reformers, but what we have been in all ages, the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ."

http://books.google.com/books?id=Dl0...page&q&f=false

Yea, that's empty rhetoric.

That's like saying, "We are not baptists- we are what we have always been in all ages, the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ."

It's silly.

We have a lineage.

To act otherwise is silly.
 
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