Baptists who don't believe in Hell?

[Me2]

Neal, I meant that you like to vision me like a pickle in a tight jar

seriously though most of the things of jesus referred to parables. He repeated what the father told him. spiritual messages wrapped in a riddle to confuse men who would oppose him and his message.

eventually the truth leaked out..right on time.

who understood him...nobody ? it was a carnal message to children that effected them the most until they would be filled by the holy spirit.
then the saying that they remembered,
the Spirit would interpret for them.

at times growing up..Id read something 20 time and not understand. I had the message.. but it wasnt my time for the message to mean anything to me.
then one day..the light bulb would come on.
for 25 years..one light bulb after another. these parables are hard if your not familiar with the OT but they actually do parallel with New covenant teachings of the spirit and its operations.

such as the child, young man, and father faith levels of 1 John. they are associated with the OT tabernacle laws. one cant enter the tabernacle veil unless you are anointed of God..young man level.
next the father level. passing through the veil of the holy of holies. same operations and perameters.
only a slight different way and language to decribe them..
unfortunately their are tribulations of faith between the child/young man level and young man/father levels..
thats the old tried by fire part of sanctification. and if you are part of the elect and desire the things of God...
Your numbers comming up.

Me2

 

[neal4christ]

seriously though most of the things of jesus referred to parables.

I am sorry, maybe I am dense. I still don't know why you think Matthew 25:31-46 is a parable. What from that section of Scripture makes you see it as a parable?

Neal

 

[Matthew 16:24]

Hello Matthew,

your preaching to the choir. Your about 25 years too late on the formal training.

I like to think that God allows those who believe in such ways to serve a purpose.

you do know that in the family of God that there are two kinds of followers..
those who live by adulterizing Grace by mixing rules and laws and judgemental attitudes.
and those who just want to rest in Christ by not worrying about any other persons pet doctrines that they seem to be following at the moment.

If I am preaching to the choir then why are we on a disagreement?
A Christian is never too late my friend, in anything.
Sounds like you have it all figured it out, but anyways the seed is sown. Maybe if we meet up again in a few years you will see the truth.

Not believing in Hell is not a Pet doctrine. That type of belief will make you lukewarm.
Not saying you need to worry about other peoples doctrine. It just makes you spiritual stronger to talk about your point of view and your beliefs on the total Word of God. Studying and show yourself approved unto god. That is what I am doing. When someone has been deceived I will try and point him/her in the right direction, which I tried here. I am not saying I know all either but Hell is pretty obvious to me. I believe if you are truly following Jesus with all your heart and letting him reign over your life, he will show you the difference between true doctrine and half truths.

I Love Gods Plan..Because its His Way or the Highway..and why would you suppose that most that are called fail when tried. I believe, its because they cant let go of the current trendy doctrine that everybody seems to be following at the moment.

I believe it is because the person is not letting Jesus totally 100% rule over their lives. They are still trying to get away with their pet sins, could be small but it gets in the way of their walk with God.

so if your concept of God is such that you can see him tormenting his creation...
well thats what you choose to believe.

I cant

and secondly if you wont give God the ability to administer mercy and forgiveness to anyone he chooses..even if he chooses all to be saved at the last second..
again. that is what you choose to believe.

I cant.

My belief lines right up with Gods teaching,
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Maybe he did not mean what he said just like Hell is not real.

You believe in eternal life? And you do not believe in hell (eternal torment)? Does not make sense to me. Do you believe in Satan as real foe?

Did you read what I posted earlier and think about it?


In Christ.

 

[Me2]

Neal, the entire judgement thingy...

Do you actually think you'll stand in front of a throne and be judged...
its all antropomorphic language that God uses to associate himself to man and his way of thinking.

the Son of Man shall come in his glory..
when does this occur...when your faith is tried
do you see this..no..its invisible. do we see anything closely associated with god in our everyday life. No. He's invisible..yet he's also infinite..oohhh. he's everywhere.

wheres the throne..inside you..your HIS temple

gathering nations and sheep and goats...uuhh what

and would anyone you know cast you into a literal burning flame forever? just because you didnt give them some water? thats pretty tight ?

its all allegorical..representing other things

this one concentrating one differences between being selfish and selfless and of course the consequenses..but again..its temporary and then again sometimes the selfishness lasts a lifetime.
then death would be more merciful. the quiet peace of silence. instead of the constant battle inside their head of whos God, and Who aint.

Me2

 

[neal4christ]

Do you actually think you'll stand in front of a throne and be judged...

Actually, yes, I believe that there will be a literal judgement one day.

You still don't explain it very well. Jesus was not talking as He was in the first 2/3 of this chapter. I don't see it as a parable. The stuff you say about it is all made up in your head, there is no other proof than what you say. Why should this be taken as a parable other than you choose to see it that way?

Neal

 

[neal4christ]

the Son of Man shall come in his glory..
when does this occur...when your faith is tried

Where did you get this from? How did you come up with this interpretation for the Son of Man coming in His glory?

Neal

 

[Me2]

Hello Matthew,

I missed the reply there..sorry.
I can start off with..been there done that

grew up...I was raised in a southern baptist church..from diapers. got saved at 20.Im now 45..
the day I was born again ..Pretrib reigned..and their were few teachers or references. thank God I dropped that. too much antichrist and end of the world.
lindsay, Lahay...Got burnt like toast.

but my love for knowledge didnt stop. by then Im a fundy.. no problems other than no one to talk to about ANYTHING. approached Grace vs law studies..
by then accepted amill. im versed in OT, Parables,Proverbs,Sanctification. but what bugs yall the worse is my belief in a figurative hell and reconciliation of all (well Im still questioning Satan and Demons) but Im the guy thats always got 100 questions in my head waiting for God to answer whichever one he wants to. hovering around there for about the last 10 years...im a sbc again.
but I wouldnt open my mouth (keyboard) if I didnt Stand By what I believed. right. what else would I have if not for my beliefs towards God.
Anyway its His show for All of Us..We Wait for the Next lesson.Were really not that different in how we are taught and even what.
thats why i said its so cool..Its His Show..His Way and Nobody cheats...totally unlike reality.

I know the arguments neal..I can tell them to you.
about hell and judgement. Gods in Total control.
and I have no one to fear, But Him.

I give you my insights and you give me yours..
neither of us know what will make the next light bulb turn on..maybe a simple idea. God works in very mysterious ways..maybe it will be from your words to my ears...

all we can do is try to communicate.
Me2

 

[Me2]

Neal..Its called Ressurrection Day.

The Day you recognized that Jesus actually Was Raised From The Dead by God the father. It occurred through you hearing Gods Message..by the way not from man but from God (Spirit to Spirit) and then the understanding . After the law did its dirty work and killed your flesh from opposing the sovereignty of Jesus being your Lord, Savior And Propitiator.

By the way.some people takes years to grow from child to young man. Some never. Although some seem to take it like a fish to water as though Gods Driving Them To Grow. But then their Beliefs are put to the test. Some Fail. While others succeed.

but upon succession of the understanding Phase comes the proclamation. or the judgement

You were judged buddy..found to be dead and alive at the same time. the Law killed your old spirit and God the Father imputed righteousness On you.
In A Blink Of an Eye.
That Day Jesus Came To You In Glory.
He Became your Lord.
He shall sit upon the Throne of Glory...

Where..In His Temple...In You.
(Ruling and Reigning with Christ)

Like I said before..This is Old Testament but Its Colorful..Those Allegorical Jews

Me2

 

[neal4christ]

Me2,

I really can't follow you very well or understand your thinking. You don't really post proof, just ideas. You seem to like to allegorize everything. But I see no basis for the way you are interpreting things. Resurrection day was the day I believed? Proclamation is judgement? I am really not following you at all.

Neal

[ February 22, 2003, 05:12 AM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]

 

[neal4christ]

Me2,

What church do you attend now?

Neal

 

[Bob Farnaby]

OK, back to the original topic ...

Some baptists do belive in a literal everlasting hell (me included) some don't.
I see it in scripture, it has been covered a number of times above.
Those that don't .. my report on their positions ..

Some say God is lve, so will save all (universalism) and the hell part is discovering you hadn't belived God and therefore feel remorse

Some say that christians who die go to heaven, non christians go to hell, but at the resurrection all will inhabit the new earth.those who were in hell having learnt their lesson andthen experienced God's grace.

Some say after the judgement non christians in hell will be consumed by the flames and ceace to exist (anihilation)

My opinion, those who deny the reality of the everlasting punishment are denying the justice of God and looking for a 'soft' option to make them and others (especially non christian family and friends) feel better ...

Regards
Bob

 

[Me2]

Howdy Neal,

That a sbc good buddy..

i thought you could follow in idea format. Of which I still Do. My ideas to you might be farfetched.
but their really not that far away to be understood.
i often find when posting "Proof" that either it was ignored or would be misunderstood.

the arguments are there but we all know our stance on what we believe and the enormous weight of proof it would take to budge us from these positions.

but some things are certain. I dont find too many who know of sanctification..thats weird. you would think that peoples opinions would be freely coming forth. Now parables..Go ask All You Want. You will find most take them literally and no spiritual parallels would be present. Much like mat 24 coming of the lord..same thing as discussed earlier. judgement day or resurrection day..same thing. or rich man and lazarus..difference between those under the law and those living by grace. Still we can find the same truths in the epistles as opposed to twisting ones brain to think like a jew.

Me2

 

[neal4christ]

I still don't see Matthew 25:31-46 as a parable! So it is not that I am misinterpreting of not seeing a spiritual application, I don't see it as a parable, but rather as describing a future event. Until we resolve this difference, there is no way I could take the leaps that you do. So either you can establish that it is a parable or there is nothing else to discuss. Sorry, it appears that you hoist your feelings on Scripture rather than let it stand on its own.

Also, what church do you go to? I would like to know what type of a Baptist church you attend, if you don't mind.

Neal

 

[John Wells]

Originally posted by Me2:
its all allegorical..representing other things

That sure does about sum up your theology! I'll leave you to your devices. Like you said, you know all the arguments. You just don't accept them! Your god is not the God of the Bible. He's too righteous for your taste; too true to His word. No, the god you've created in your head plays this game of "salvation by faith," but in the end says, "Oh, never mind. Everyone come on in to my kingdom, even if you never believed in or accepted me during your life. Now that you've died and found out I'm real, you believe. That's good enough for me!"

 

[KenH]

I do hope that out of this discussion those non-Calvinists in this thread will now admit they believe in a limited atonement(its effectiveness) just as traditional Calvinists believe in a limited atonement(its intent). And that these non-Calvinists will admit that they believe that God punishes the same sin(s) twice.

That is what you are saying so just admit it and cut out the fancy footwork to avoid it.

 

[KenH]

From www.hisremnant.org/eby/articles/savior/moralagent.html

You have probably heard it said throughout all of your life, that MAN IS A FREE MORAL AGENT. Let me call attention to the fact that the phrase "free moral agent" is not a Scriptural one, any more than the term "rapture" is Scriptural. Free moral agency is simply a theological expression, man-manufactured for his own convenience, and like most human inventions, and extra-biblical terminology, is not the truth at all. But briefly let us examine these three words: free moral agent.

1. An AGENT is an actor, one who is able to act or perform.

2. A FREE agent is one who can act as he pleases without any restraint of any kind placed upon him.

3. A free MORAL agent is one who is free to act as he pleases and without any restraint on all moral issues, i.e. questions involving the qualities of right and wrong.

I do not believe that the Bible anywhere teaches that man is a free moral agent. That teaching is a figment of the imagination of the harlot church system. In fact, the Bible teaches the exact opposite. It tells us, "It is NOT of him that WILLS or of him that runs, but of GOD that shows mercy" (Rom. 9:16). The biggest lie that ever was told in human language is that all men are born free moral agents. They are not born free. Be honest! Ask, Is that child free who is born in the slums; the child of a harlot and a whoremonger; a child without a name, who grows up with the brand of shame upon his brow from the beginning; who grows up amidst vice, and never knows virtue until it is steeped in vice? Is such a child a FREE MORAL AGENT, free to act intelligently, as he chooses, upon all moral questions? Is that child free who grows up amidst falsehood, and never knows what truth is until it is steeped in lies; that never knows what honesty is until it is steeped in crime? Is that child born free? Is that child free who is born in a communist land and in a godless home; who is told by its government and taught by its teachers that there is no God in heaven, and never knows even a verse of Scripture until it is steeped in unbelief and infidelity? Is that child born free? Is he a free moral agent? It is a sham, a delusion, and a snare to say it. It is not true. All are not born into this world as free moral agents. The truth is much stronger than that, for the fact is, that NONE are free moral agents!

The preachers claim that when God made man in the first place, He endowed him with freedom of will, the ability to accept God's love or reject it, to keep God's laws or break them, and that the decision here and now is a final choice. But our Lord says, "No man can come unto Me, except the Father which has sent Me draw him" (Jn. 6:44). Let us think a moment of just how free man is, how far his freedom reaches. A little observation and study will show that man's freedom has very narrow limits. One is able to wish or desire or purpose as he pleases, but when he comes to carry out his wish or desire or purpose, he finds that he faces a problem. One is not free in the physical realm. Just let him try to jump off the Earth and land on Mars, for example. One is not free in the social realm. Not every man can marry the woman he wishes. One is not free in the economic realm. Not every person who dreams of being a millionaire can become one, no matter how hard he tries. One is not free in the moral and spiritual realm. He may desire with all his being to rid the world of drunkenness and vice, of greed and hate and war, but who has yet accomplished that? Many are not able to free even themselves from a little weed called tobacco!

Life neither begins or ends by choice and free will. Consider the matter of your own physical birth. What did you have to do with it, my friend? May I remind you that you were not consulted in the matter; you were absolutely passive in it; you had nothing whatsoever to do with it. You did not have a choice as to where or when you would be born. You had no choice as to what kind of a home or family you would be born into. Did someone say to you, "Tell me, sir - or would you rather be madam? Would you like to have black hair, or blond hair, or perhaps no hair at all? Would you like to have brown eyes or blue? Would you like to have white skin, or black, or would green, or red, or yellow suit you better? And where would you like to live? In Miami, or Hong Kong, or Siberia, or maybe in the Congo?" Nothing of the sort! You were not even consulted. The sovereign Lord God of heaven and earth brought you into existence and ordained your path without so much as a how-do-you-feel-about-it. And you had no choice as to how you would be born, in what condition or state of being. The Psalmist declared, "Behold, I was brought forth in a state of iniquity; my mother was sinful who conceived me and I, too, am sinful" (Ps. 51:5, Amplified). Well did the apostle Paul write....... by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned ... for by one man's disobedience many were made sinners" (Rom. 5:12,19). If any man had brought himself into being, then we can conceive of the possibility of his having something to say about his condition and destiny. But mankind had absolutely nothing whatever to do with his coming into this world. It was the choice of God. God chose to bring this creature into existence because He had a definite plan for him in His creative purposes in the whole universe. It was God who formed man of the dust of the ground. It was God who breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. It was God who placed man in the Garden of Eden. It was God who planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the midst of the Garden. It was God who gave the law that man should neither touch this tree nor eat of it. And it was God who made the serpent and put him in the Garden and sent him along one beautiful day to tempt the man. It was GOD!

Even if Adam was a free moral agent, God is responsible for what happened in the Garden, for whatever a free moral agent may do, He is responsible for it who made him a free moral agent. If God made man a free moral agent, then God created within man the propensities for either good or evil which determined his choices. If God made man a free moral agent, He knew beforehand what the result would be, and hence is just as responsible for the consequences of the acts of that free moral agent as He would be for the act of an irresponsible machine that He had made. Man's free moral agency, even if it were true, would by no means clear God from the responsibility of his acts since God is his Creator and has made him in the first place just what he is, well knowing what the result would be. If God's will is ever thwarted, then He is not almighty. If His will is thwarted, then His plans must be changed, and hence He is not all-wise and immutable. If His will is never thwarted, then all things are in accordance with His will and He is the architect of all things as they exist. If He is all-wise and all-good, then all things, existing according to His will, must be working toward some wise and wonderful end!

"What shall we conclude then? Is there injustice on God's part? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then God's gift is not a question of human will and human effort, but of God's mercy. It depends not one ones own willingness ... but on God's having mercy on him. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, I have raised you up for this very purpose of displaying My power in dealing with you, so that My name may be proclaimed the whole world over. So then He has mercy on whomever He wills (chooses) and He hardens - makes stubborn and unyielding of heart - whomever He wills. You will say to me, Why then does He still find fault and blame us for sinning? For who can resist and withstand His will? But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and answer back to God? Will what is formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me thus? Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use?" (Rom. 9:14-21, Amplified).

It is a wicked and cruel lie to say that the unregenerated man is a "free moral agent." He is no such thing! He is a slave. "We know that the Law is spiritual; but I am a creature of the flesh (carnal), having been SOLD INTO SLAVERY UNDER THE CONTROL OF SIN" (Rom. 7:14, Amplified). The unregenerate man is a slave to sin. He is a slave to Satan. He is a slave of his own carnal mind and deceitfully wicked heart. He is a slave of his own vile passions. How can a man who is a slave and a captive of the devil be a "free moral agent"? Impossible! Adam sold us out. Adam gave us no choice in bringing his progeny under the workings of iniquity. When Adam went into sin, he did not consult with any one of us as to our desire concerning anything he did. None of us had any power or any choice in the condition in which we entered this world. WE WERE NOT SINNERS BY CHOICE, as we have erroneously been told. We are "born in sin, and shapened in iniquity," with the carnal nature in us from the moment we leave the womb. Being "dead in trespasses and sins," dead to God, dead to truth, dead to purity, dead to reality, the Adamic race was no longer capable of making a choice or decision for salvation. How truly the apostle wrote in Eph. 2:2-3, "And you ... were dead in trespasses and sins: wherein in time past you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience; among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and WERE BY N-A-T-U-R-E THE CHILDREN OF WRATH, even as others."

The message is clear - we were not sinners by choice. We were sinners by NATURE! We were BORN INTO this condition, simply because the first man, Adam, put us all into slavery to sin. We had nothing to say about it. We did not in any way will it, consent to it, or choose it, for we were born into it. And we were not born free moral agents. We were born slaves!


And yet people generally say that if you are born in an awful situation, you will be tortured by God forever for something that, when you look at the whole situation, you could not prevent.

 

[Caretaker]

John 1:

1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: The same was in the beginning with God.
3: All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4: In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5: And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6: There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7: The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8: He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9: That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10: He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11: He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 3:

15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19: And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21: But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


Romans 1:
16: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17: For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19: Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


The Word of God is clear and the guilty are without excuse. Those found NOT written in the Lamb's Book of Life, WILL have their part in the lake of Fire, Rev. 20: where the Beast and False Prophet ARE after 1000 years.

A servant of Christ,
Drew

 

[Me2]

Hi Caretaker,

I was reading The previous post of Ken and then yours. Do you ever notice that multiple plans are running parallel with each other.
such as your embolded verse that you've mentioned.

God has chosen Some out of the world of People.but only some (but what about All Men)
within those that he picks to be adopted children ..he doesnt ask, he picks. His plans to bring them up as adopted children within his family are just that, his plans.
just as cain and abel or esau and jacob..one group
soon acts one way, and the other somewhat differently. all under the scheme of what appears to be our very own "free will choices" or is it.

vessels of wrath..those children who's lifestyle brings them down a pathway of effort and inner turmoil with God and the other group the "rest in Grace by faith group" are those that only resides within the choices predetermined "in christ" or we can say "predestined".

so we have God choosing out of the whole of the human population. these folks dont even recognize the existence of a God.
we have the vessels of mercy that God chooses and are Saved. Even within this group...Some have further deepened relationships with Christ known as the Elect. those specifically chosen to saerve as Christ Literal Body in Gods Plans of future Ages.
And we have The vessels of Wrath. Did you ever read in Proverbs that there are Three seperate classes of Fools representing These Vessels or Wrath found in Proverbs. the general fool, the sluggard and the angry man..God does lay out his wisdom if one is inclined to search for it.
But these guys are saved and are dead "in christ" also..but they are not a member of the elect reserved for others within Gods selection.
Thats why the resurrection is called the resurrection of the just and of the unjust.

but then again the resurrection is spiritual and during the life of the believers within the family of God. thats why we end up talking about these groups flesh vs spirit, or law vs grace. its all within the family of God. some live in an existence of hell in their mind..some heaven. but God is still participating in both groups lives.

and the world..they wouldnt Give a hoot about Gods Existence..But God is infinite..God is within them. only not participating on a teaching level as he does within his family. which now this boils down to..A focused lesson within Gods Family to Be Explained to even these People at some Later time in future ages to come. God is Just..Methodical, Rational and eventually Just..Even these people become citizens "in Christ" after death. These are the people that will be taught as also the children of wrath after death....by guess who?...the elect. The literal embodiment of "christ in Caretaker"

They have to be..So that God will be "All in all"
or God would be lying.
All sins being covered over "in Christ"

Me2

 

[KenH]

From: www.universalistchristians.org

A Simple Argument for Universalism


Suppose that Christ commanded that we love our enemies and love our neighbor even as we love ourselves because such love is an essential condition of blessedness or supreme happiness. If this is true, as I believe it is, then God could not possibly bring blessedness to one person without also bringing it to all.

Here is why. If I truly love my daughter even as I love myself, then her interests and my own are so tightly interwoven as to be logically inseparable: any good that befalls her is then a good that befalls me, and any evil that befalls her is likewise an evil that befalls me. I could never be happy, for example, knowing that my daughter is suffering or in a miserable condition--unless, of course, I could somehow believe that all will be well for her in the end. But if I cannot believe this, if I were to believe instead that she had been lost to me forever--even if I were to believe that, by her own will, she had made herself intolerably evil--my own happiness could never be complete. For I would always know what could have been, and I would always experience this as a terrible tragedy and an unacceptable loss, one for which no compensation is even conceivable. Is it any wonder, then, that Paul could say concerning his unbelieving brothers and sisters whom he loved so much: "For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people" (Romans 9:3)? From the perspective of his love, in other words, Paul's own damnation would be no worse an evil, and no greater threat to his own happiness, than the eternal damnation of his loved ones would be.

God could make us "happy" whilst our loved ones suffered in hell only in two possible ways: either by concealing from us the magnitude of the tragedy (blissful ignorance), or by giving us a callous and stony heart, so that we no longer truly loved those who were lost. Both of these possibilities, however, are incompatible with true blessedness. So in the end, it is logically impossible for God to bring blessedness to one person without also bringing it to all.

 

[KenH]

By the way, I do hope that those who oppose the idea of God saving all of His creatures distinguish between Christian universalism and Christless universalism that considers the value(or lack thereof) of all religions to be the same.