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Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, Apr 26, 2021.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Did you see the false claim that God being the author of our faith means our faith was instilled by irresistible grace? How is God providing the basis of our faith the same as beaming faith into folks supernaturally. Will any Calvinist answer. Nope
     
    #41 Van, May 8, 2021
  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You still did not answer my question.
     
    #42 Reformed1689, May 8, 2021
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  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Endless questions, now he makes the false charge my view is our faith is "completely of our own accord" without being drawn by the Father. Endless false charges are the stock and trade of Calvinism.
     
    #43 Van, May 8, 2021
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Waiting for some Calvinist with integrity.
     
    #44 Van, May 8, 2021
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The gift of salvation is obtained by God crediting our faith and devotion toward Christ as righteousness. Thus the gifts of salvation (being made righteous, being justified, being forgiven, being indwelt, and our future bodily redemption and eternal life with Christ) arise from our credited faith in Christ. Ek Pisteos appears to be used in at least two ways:

    1) out from Old Covenant Faith and into New Covenant Faith, and

    2) the benefits of salvation arising from our faith in Christ being credited as righteousness by God. Everyone believing into Christ shall not perish but have eternal life, but God alone determines those believing by crediting their faith as righteousness.

    A third usage (the righteous man will live by faith - ek pisteos) is where the idea is behaving in accordance with faithfulness toward God and His Christ.
     
    #45 Van, May 8, 2021
  6. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Then please explain how we get our faith if it is not of our own accord.
     
    #46 Reformed1689, May 8, 2021
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  7. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Stop the personal insults, I'm trying to have an honest conversation with you but you don't seem to want to have one.
     
    #47 Reformed1689, May 8, 2021
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  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Asked and answered, note the Calvinist is simply plowing through a list of questions to run up the number of pages. Mindless twaddle.
     
    #48 Van, May 8, 2021
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Stop posting off topic, asked and answered questions over and over like a person without integrity.
     
    #49 Van, May 8, 2021
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The gift of salvation is obtained by God crediting our faith and devotion toward Christ as righteousness. Thus the gifts of salvation (being made righteous, being justified, being forgiven, being indwelt, and our future bodily redemption and eternal life with Christ) arise from our credited faith in Christ. Ek Pisteos appears to be used in at least two ways:

    1) out from Old Covenant Faith and into New Covenant Faith, and

    2) the benefits of salvation arising from our faith in Christ being credited as righteousness by God. Everyone believing into Christ shall not perish but have eternal life, but God alone determines those believing by crediting their faith as righteousness.

    A third usage (the righteous man will live by faith - ek pisteos) is where the idea is behaving in accordance with faithfulness toward God and His Christ.
     
    #50 Van, May 8, 2021
  11. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever thought you may have not answered in a way I realized or understood your position? I'm trying to have a conversation Van.
     
    #51 Reformed1689, May 8, 2021
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Since this endless question ploy is used by Calvinist after Calvinist, your pleadings are revolting nonsense.
     
    #52 Van, May 8, 2021
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The gift of salvation is obtained by God crediting our faith and devotion toward Christ as righteousness. Thus the gifts of salvation (being made righteous, being justified, being forgiven, being indwelt, and our future bodily redemption and eternal life with Christ) arise from our credited faith in Christ. Ek Pisteos appears to be used in at least two ways:

    1) out from Old Covenant Faith and into New Covenant Faith, and

    2) the benefits of salvation arising from our faith in Christ being credited as righteousness by God. Everyone believing into Christ shall not perish but have eternal life, but God alone determines those believing by crediting their faith as righteousness.

    A third usage (the righteous man will live by faith - ek pisteos) is where the idea is behaving in accordance with faithfulness toward God and His Christ.
     
    #53 Van, May 8, 2021
  14. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Insulting people is not a Christian trait, Van.
    Rather, it is a bad fruit ( Galatians 5:19-21 ).

    Next time, try addressing people without insulting them, if you're so inclined.
    Yes, it does.
    It also says that our faith was authored and finished by Jesus Christ ( Hebrews 12:2 ) and is the evidence of things not seen ( Hebrews 11:1 ).

    Therefore, the faith that He credits, was His to give...
    and the faith that was His to give, was His to credit.

    Marvelous, isn't it?:Sneaky
     
    #54 Dave G, May 8, 2021
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    But it can be understood that way, if one looks at everything the Bible has to say about a person's faith in Christ and where it comes from.
    By not telling believers everything that the Lord has stated about a subject,
    one can be said to be leaving out vital details that they really should be including, for the benefit of those who are reading or hearing.

    I would prefer not to do that, but to be as thorough as possible.
    Hebrews 10:38-39 tells me that I live by faith...
    The same faith that Paul said that he lived by, which was "of" ( by or from ) the Son of God ( Galatians 2:20 ).

    " I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

    In fact, this tells me that it is His faith that I live by...
    Because He dwells in me.

    In other words, His faith is now my faith. :)
    Being justified by faith is evidential, not conditional.

    If you understood where the ability to believe actually came from ( Philippians 1:29 ),
    I think you would fall on your face and realize that God gave you everything you need to walk with Him in this life.

    He credits our faith as righteousness...
    But His grace doesn't just stop right there, my friend.

    and no, it's not "twaddle". :)
     
    #55 Dave G, May 8, 2021
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  16. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    No, it does not.
    "He that is of God" are the only ones that will hear ( John 8:47 ).

    Faith comes by hearing...
    but how does hearing come?
    By the word of God.

    " So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

    I think you missed that one important detail, Van.
    Please look at all the words, instead of just "faith cometh by hearing".

    No on hears unless the word of God makes them to hear.
    See Acts of the Apostles 16:14, James 1:18 and many others.

    The Lord "begets" His children with the word of truth...
    They do not "beget" themselves with the word of truth.
    It tells us in the text why He did that, Van.
    So that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not hear.

    Parables are used to conceal truth...not to reveal it.
    it's called "judicial blinding" ( which the so-called "Calvinist" calls "reprobation" ), and He did it for a reason.
     
    #56 Dave G, May 8, 2021
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  17. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry Van, but that is salvation by works.
    By using something to influence the Lord to save someone, He is not relying on what He does, but on what we do.

    If you are comfortable teaching that we as sinners can merit our salvation from God by our acts of belief and faith, then that is on you... and I am sorry that you think that His gifts can be purchased through our own efforts at pleasing Him.

    My salvation was purchased by Jesus Christ's completed efforts at pleasing Him during His time here and on the cross... not on my own paltry efforts, which are as filthy rags in His sight.
    Thus, according to the above, I see that they are earned by what we do...
    and salvation is then merited by our act of faith.
    Agreed.
    We as believers use what Jesus Christ authored and finished for us ( Hebrews 12:2 ) and that God has given to us ( Ephesians 2:8 ), to do many things ( Hebrews 11 ).
     
    #57 Dave G, May 8, 2021
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
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  18. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    He opens our hearts by His power, thereby enabling us to listen to His words ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ) and believe them, instead of rejecting them out of hand.
    It is not "beaming faith" into a person.

    God does not do the believing for a person,
    but He knows what will happen if He changes the heart.:)
     
    #58 Dave G, May 8, 2021
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Now we get five posts from another Calvinist, replaying the same playbook. Twaddle through and through.
    1) First yet another false charge, Calvinism not Calvinists is twaddle, no Calvinist has been insulted.
    2) God credits our faith not His instilled faith. Divine faith would not need to be credited.
    3) Your faith means your faith not His instilled faith. Calvinism rewrites scripture.
    4) Calvinism is thoroughly wrong.
    5) Next an appeal to ambiguity, where falsehood is read into the text.
    6) Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the body, I live because of the faithfulness of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
    7) God gave humanity the ability to believe. The "T" of Calvinism has been shown to be bogus.
    8) Yet another false charge, no one said God's grace stops with crediting our faith.
    9) Three of the four soils could both understand the gospel and joyously accept it. They did not belong to God beforehand.
    10) Next another false charge, no one said the gospel is not the Word of God.
    11) Again the false doctrine that people cannot hear God's word is repeated ad nauseam.
    12) Next the reason Jesus spoke in parables (Matthew 13) is given in the explanation: "OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN,
    AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.’
    13) Next the false claim that our credited faith merits salvation is repeated. Calvinism arises from falsehood piled on falsehood.
    14) Calvinism denies Romans 4:16 over and over again.
    15) The twaddle of Calvinism ends proclaim the "T" but avoided the fact of Matthew 23:13 demonstrates the "T" is bogus.
     
    #59 Van, May 9, 2021
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The gift of salvation is obtained by God crediting our faith and devotion toward Christ as righteousness. Thus the gifts of salvation (being made righteous, being justified, being forgiven, being indwelt, and our future bodily redemption and eternal life with Christ) arise from our credited faith in Christ. Ek Pisteos appears to be used in at least two ways:

    1) out from Old Covenant Faith and into New Covenant Faith, and

    2) the benefits of salvation arising from our faith in Christ being credited as righteousness by God. Everyone believing into Christ shall not perish but have eternal life, but God alone determines those believing by crediting their faith as righteousness.

    A third usage (the righteous man will live by faith - ek pisteos) is where the idea is behaving in accordance with faithfulness toward God and His Christ. See Romans 1:17, Galatians 3:11, and Hebrews 10:38.
     
    #60 Van, May 9, 2021
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
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