BBF - Pro or Con?

[Pastor J]

I agree with Mexdeaf,

The BBF has gone away from the KJV, which has caused problems with many of their state chapters. They do tend to have the mentality of a Pastor run (not led) church. However, I have never seen easy believism in any of their churches, though that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[Brandon C. Jones]

This has been a most interesting discussion! I grew up in a BBF church, graduated from BBC and even BBGST, and I also have in-laws who are lifelong BBFI missionaries--having said all of that I think the BBF is merely serving its base and keeping the status quo with a few exceptions trying to do a little more.

They are definitely fundamentalist as opposed to evangelical. They are not uniformly KJVO but I will be beyond amazed if the "only KJV" attitude ever leaves most of its churches (or pastors if you like) and colleges any time soon. They are definitely against a plurality of elders and the typical preacher is far from an expositor or exegete. However, their base is getting from BBF pastors exactly what it wants--reinforcement of what the last preacher said.

I'm not trying to dismiss anything they have accomplished for Christ, but after 20+ years with them I see no future in that movement for me. There is little theological diversity or tolerance and an overemphasis of peripheral, nit-picky matters in the group as a whole. Pastors/churches are concerned with music style, wardrobe and bible versions more than much more important things it seems.

I will conclude by saying that this movement is far from monolithic and, thankfully, there are many exceptions to everything I've said. I will tout Chicago's Charles Lyons as one.

BJ

 

[shannonL]

I attend a BBF church with a pastor who is very supportive of BBFI. He does use the KJV. However our pastor is not big at all on easy believism.
When we joined the church we were not even brought before the church for membership until we went through the "Discovering Church Membership" class. In that class they start out from salvation and go from there. The main thrust of our church is Discipleship Ministry. Once you go through the 16 week course your then encouraged to disciple another member yourself. This course is chocked full of doctrine, scripture memory etc... It is one of the best things I have ever seen. I can't wait to take the course myself and take it with me to the mission field to use to disciple new converts or use it to just stir non believers into studying the Bible.
BBF pastors come in all shapes and sizes. Some are 1611KJVO nuts all the way to all out pushing the envelope as far as innovative ministry goes.
It is simply unfair to lump all people affiliated with BBF as baboons who don't know their right form left. Although there are some like that.
Our church has grown from 50 members to 250 over the 22yrs our pastor has been there. He started discipleship ministry about 12 yrs. ago. I continued to be amazed at the quality of members that our church has. We have 250 on Sun. morn. We average about 165 on Sun.night. I believe the discipleship has made all the difference in the world. Even pastor said at one time the church ran four hundred when he was a youth man there. He says the 250 are twice as good a member. (pastorally speaking).
BTW, you don't have to have a PH.D to be a good expository preacher. I'm all for education but degrees don't determine how well some pastor can expositionally preach the word.
All that being said about the BBF. I plan to just stay independent. I enjoy fellowship with GARB folk, SBC folk, Bob Jones, Pensecola folk, Reformed baptist, I like going to the mission field as an independent because I can work and fellowship with the different fellowships of baptist without having to cowtail to any of their honchos or conform to their pet peeves.
It would do alot of us baptist some good to quit nipping at each others heels. Alot of us are on the same page and just don't know it or just don't want to know it. Because if we did then we wouldn't have something to be critical about.

 

[jshurley04]

Two thoughts

1. Heartland is the result of the THEFT of PCBBC by Sam Davidson. He then, as president of the fellowship, caused a huge debate over pants at BBC. He is the one that allowed the decision to stand that he started the fight over.

2. Charles Lyons ROCKS!!

 

[sovgrace79]

There is little theological diversity or tolerance and an overemphasis of peripheral, nit-picky matters in the group as a whole.

That is one of the things that bothered me about some of the chapels at BBC(Boston). There was quite a bit of those wanting to push the fellowship to the right or left bringing up trivial matters. I was amazed when I started fellowshipping with men outside the BBF how infrequent things like "pants", "music", etc. are preached about, compared to solid exposition of the Bible.

I think I remember more than one prof. at school saying something to the effect of "we don't want clones".

I took them up on it, and wrote a paper on having a plurality of elders and a research paper favorable to Particular Redemption. I don't think they agreed, but I still got good grades on the papers

 

[Dr. Bob]

Note: I've received 3 private messages from folks on this thread intimately involved with BBF et al. None were complimentary to the group, but none wanted to be seen as "negative" or "gossip". I can understand that.

But it IS unsettling to see. And causes me to question even more this organization.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
Note: I've received 3 private messages from folks on this thread intimately involved with BBF et al. None were complimentary to the group, but none wanted to be seen as "negative" or "gossip". I can understand that.

But it IS unsettling to see. And causes me to question even more this organization.

I suppose if you started a thread about the SBC you might get a few private messages also.

I think you need to understand that the BBF right now is going through a time of turmoil, actually it has been for some time. So I would not read too much into a few private messages. This is not the first time the BBF has gone through this type of thing and won't be the last.

 

[His In China]

Folks -- I'm new to this forum. Been away from America since the year 2000.

My family and I have been labouring in China for over 10 years. Its been tough, but blessings are abounding.

It grieves me to see brethern at odds when the world, especially CHina, is going to hell by the thousands each day. I'm not trying to preach to any one, too take sides, or to excuse false teachings, but lets all consider a simple thought. If Jesus was to post a "quick reply" to this topic, I wonder if it wouldn't be: John 11:35 Jesus wept.

Let's get our eyes off of each other and onto the fields. Our beliefs should be true to the "Old paths" and not to follow any camps or alumni but the words of Christ.

These distractions keeps the devil happy, souls lost, stunts the growth of the church and keeps the cults growing. Also, has anyone noticed how our young people are no longer interested in Missions or the full time ministry? I think I know why. They see the pastors, evangelist, deacons and missionaries who can't get along with each other.

Maybe we are preaching one thing with our mouths, but our actions are teaching them something different. Just a thought? Let's out check our hearts to see if we are like Christ.

I believe in the Blood, the Bible, and Blessed Saviour who can return at any time. I want to be found in the fields sowing, and battling the devil in his own backyard (China) and not sowing discontent among the brethern.

I don't really know any of you, probably will never meet most of you, UNTIL that BLESSED day in heaven when the blood bought saints are raptured to heaven. I can't wait, I hope its today - PTL!

That will be a glorious day and I hope to see and meet you all on that DAY! May God bless you and may we all get busy reaching the lost where ever we might be.

Reach a soul today, give God the glory and rejoice!

Can I get an Amen?

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Amen!

 

[go2church]

His in China,
Thanks for not preaching (TIC) So are you pro or con toward the BBF?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I dare say HiC like myself is neutral on the matter. The BBF has little impact on our areas of operation. So, we don't have a dog in the fight.

 

[shannonL]

I'm attend a church where the pastor is very pro BBF. I'm not nor am I against it. I will be going back into the pastorate here in the states after seeing the door shut to the mission field.
I just want to pastor a a independent baptist church. I know some BBF pastors don't do anything but look down on you if your not a BBFer and by that I mean you went to one of their schools etc.. I've met others like my pastor who are wonderful fellows who just want to see great things done for the Lord.
With that being said Mexdeaf is right about the BBF it is in tormoil I believe.
You have the KJVO brand of fellows. I believe they will continue to be marginalized to the point that they will form some other kind of fellowship. If they haven't already I don't know.
It looks to me like the leadership of BBF is reaching out to other IFB groups and some SBC.

ON the surface it looks to me like the BBF is shaping up to look more and more like a denomination.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Originally posted by shannonL:
I'm attend a church where the pastor is very pro BBF. I'm not nor am I against it. I will be going back into the pastorate here in the states after seeing the door shut to the mission field.
I just want to pastor a a independent baptist church. I know some BBF pastors don't do anything but look down on you if your not a BBFer and by that I mean you went to one of their schools etc.. I've met others like my pastor who are wonderful fellows who just want to see great things done for the Lord.
With that being said Mexdeaf is right about the BBF it is in tormoil I believe.
You have the KJVO brand of fellows. I believe they will continue to be marginalized to the point that they will form some other kind of fellowship. If they haven't already I don't know.
It looks to me like the leadership of BBF is reaching out to other IFB groups and some SBC.

ON the surface it looks to me like the BBF is shaping up to look more and more like a denomination.

Shannon,

There's a lot going on right now under the surface. The issues are less about Bible versions and more about who will control the missionaries and thus the $. Since this is a mixed forum that's all I am going to say.

 

[David Singleton]

Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

This says it all, God searches and knows the hearts of men, He knows everything we think, and feel and He knows every word that passes our lips, even before they pass our lips.

The BBFI has been going through some form of turmoil since its inception, Born out of strife, they'll most likely end in strife. Within its ranks are some very good men who only desire to serve the Lord, but there are also some men who believe the best way to serve is to create strife, pick a fight, gossip and grab for power. If you take a BBFI directory and start calling Pastors, you will find many who are only in there because they supported a missionary.

It is what you make of it, unfortunately there are many in leadership who are more interested in money and power than they are in Preaching the Gospel, or the Love of Christ.

In the mind of some Missionaries are expendable, sad but true, for some the Love of Christ can only be found on thier lips, but thier heart is empty.

 

[Sojourn(f)orTruth]

Been there, done that...

Quote:
Originally posted by SaggyWoman:
uh, what is the BBF? Is it like the WWF??
Yes, Saggy I suppose the WWF comparison would be quite accurate in many respects. For instance much of what occurs on Sunday mornings "under the lights", is but a staged rendition of what occurs in elsewhere in earnest. Likewise, the "audience" could care less, that what is put before it is blatant misrepresentation, but rather cares only that there is fire and froth coming from the participants. Likewise, just as "big names" are the draw in WWF, a name, proceeded by the letter "DR.", is more than enough to draw an anticipated reaction from a fired up crowd. And finally...both forms of "entertainment" consist of he very best, hyoperbole has to offer.

 

[TheWinDork]

On another thread on seeking pastors, the BBFI was suggested as possible source. I have had only very poor experiences with the classic BBF "mentality" here in Wyoming.

We've seen strong pastor-dictator, oriented toward the KJVo sect, shallow character, legalism/rules and culture of 1950 Texas brought into 2004 Wyoming - and highly independent, "lone ranger" attitude.

Also the "good old boy" network (based around BBC Springfield, a school bilaterally supported) with speakers, missionaries, pastors, etc that are self-perpetuating.

So these churches do their thing, quit fellowship and support of camps, etc, and the heritage of small inter-dependent churches in our state are slowly eroded.

Pretty negative, eh? That's my experience. Would like to hear YOUR views - positive or negative.

Thanks.

Dr. Bob,

Just to answer your question. The BBF Church I attended around here, Gilead Baptist Church of Allen Park, Michigan. I much as I hate to say it... The Pastor was an absolute jerk. Hopkins is his name. His words to me were and I quote..."We like to screw with people around here and if you can't handle that, you might not work out here..." Needless to say, I never went back...the man needs to Read Eph 4:29 and Eph 5:4 and apply it to his life. Sad thing is, the guy that was in there before hopkins was just as bad, came to my house here, when my grandmother was still alive, and insulted her and my mother during a visit here. Luckily for them, I wasn't here. or things would have gotten very ugly! I don't get ugly often, but I draw the line at personal insults! Needless to say, if anything happens to my folks, I won't be calling them idiots and that's for sure!

They used King James Version there, but they didn't believe in it, Used contemporary Worship and Hymns, Marry Divorced people, true compromise up one side of the road and down the other!

Which is a very sad thing, I believe the Original founding fathers of the Fort Street Congregational Church (of which that Church was founded as...) would turn over in thier graves if they saw how bad that Church has gotten...

Church was originally founded in Southwest Detroit, on Fort St. and Junction area... and when the Congregation moved the 'Burbs...(Read: WHITE PEOPLE) so did the Church... I guess they were afraid of the new people moving into that Neighborhood..(READ: Blacks and Mexicans, Latino's, ect....) Which is kinda sad. Church was founded as a Outreach to DETROIT, Not the 'Burbs... Oh well, The Church I am at now, in Southwest Detroit, has been there since 1906, and We'll keep the doors open to that area. not going to allow the ghetto'ing of the area run us out... We're not cowards...

I just pray for 'em, that the Lord would wake those people up, before it's too late. raying: