Be Careful!

[Rippon]

DHK, before bashing people, find a "New Calvinist" church and go and learn for yourself.

DHK is not merely bashing people, he's calling Christian brothers and sisters unsaved. He's saying that they preach and teach a false gospel and are therefore under eternal condemnation of Gal. 1:8,9. He has called out Dr. Al Mohler as being outside historic Christian orthodoxy and that the latter stands in violation of James 4:4.

This DHK fellow is supposed to be a moderator here and yet evidences nothing tending toward a moderating influence. He needs to step back, retract his incendiary remarks and have more mature administrators deal with him.

 

[DHK]

DHK, before bashing people, find a "New Calvinist" church and go and learn for yourself.

I am a Calvinist and I know very little, to any, of this "New Calvinist" movement. So I keep my trap shut.

That is like the argument "to learn what the drug addicts go through first be one. Then you can properly relate to them."
I consider the entire movement evil.
I have books in my own library, and I have given plenty of other references which anyone can easily find on the internet. I would not step into one of those churches, just as I would not step into a Charismatic church or any other church that has changed its message and lifestyle.

For those that defend the movement simply because it is related to Calvinism they should be ashamed. We have plenty of resources at our fingertips to find out just what these movements are about. It doesn't take a lot of research.

 

[DHK]

DHK is not merely bashing people, he's calling Christian brothers and sisters unsaved. He's saying that they preach and teach a false gospel and are therefore under eternal condemnation of Gal. 1:8,9. He has called out Dr. Al Mohler as being outside historic Christian orthodoxy and that the latter stands in violation of James 4:4.

This DHK fellow is supposed to be a moderator here and yet evidences nothing tending toward a moderating influence. He needs to step back, retract his incendiary remarks and have more mature administrators deal with him.

False allegations again.
I said that "New Calvinism" preaches a false gospel.
Now that you have slandered me by saying this how many times now?? Perhaps you are the one that should be reported?
It was Peter Masters who said of Mohler and his cohorts:
"If they want the Puritan doctrine they need to take the Puritan sanctification as well."
You can't have one without the other Masters was saying.
With any other person, you would question their salvation because you would "see no visible change," from when they were unsaved. That is the kind of life they lived when they were unsaved--the music and the sub-culture described in the quotes of my previous posts found here:
[FONT=&quot]http://www.newcalvinist.com/albert-mohler-and-hip-hop-culture/[/FONT]

 

[Rippon]

I said that "New Calvinism" preaches a false gospel.

Anyone who preaches and believes in a false gospel is, ipso facto unsaved. You are categorically calling your brothers and sisters in the faith reprobates.

New Calvinism is not a monolithic entity. It is composed of individuals. Many are in, for want of a better term, Old Calvinstic churches.

You have done your best to smear Al Mohler --without any justification whatsoever. What other indiviuals do you wish to call out as non-Christians --outside historic Christian orthodoxy and under eternal condemnation?

You are nothing but a Baptist Pontiff who thinks he can issue papal Baptist bulls. Well, get off your make-believe throne of infallibility and admit you have been in the wrong to say the disgraceful things you have uttered.

 

[convicted1]

That is like the argument "to learn what the drug addicts go through first be one. Then you can properly relate to them."

That's a bit of a streeeeeeeetch, but go ahead with it...

I consider the entire movement evil.

And what makes you the final authority? You haven't went to any of their services, but are readily willing to accept the views of others? That's ignorance to the inth degree, Brother.

I have books in my own library, and I have given plenty of other references which anyone can easily find on the internet. I would not step into one of those churches, just as I would not step into a Charismatic church or any other church that has changed its message and lifestyle.

Again, you're taking the words of others, and not going to their services first and then comparing them to their writings.

For those that defend the movement simply because it is related to Calvinism they should be ashamed. We have plenty of resources at our fingertips to find out just what these movements are about. It doesn't take a lot of research.

I am not defending neither debasing them. I know very little about their movement. You claim you know, but you "know" based on what others have written.

It's like this...reading theologians is good to do. It's good to pick their brains on any given subject. But no one would build their theology off of what they believe(d). You need to stick your nose in the bible to find out for yourself.

You don't want to attend their services, yet demean them without any firsthand knowledge. Shame on you....

 

[convicted1]

Anyone who preaches and believes in a false gospel is, ipso facto unsaved. You are categorically calling your brothers and sisters in the faith reprobates.

New Calvinism is not a monolithic entity. It is composed of individuals. Many are in, for want of a better term, Old Calvinstic churches.

You have done your best to smear Al Mohler --without any justification whatsoever. What other indiviuals do you wish to call out as non-Christians --outside historic Christian orthodoxy and under eternal condemnation?

You are nothing but a Baptist Pontiff who thinks he can issue papal Baptist bulls. Well, get off your make-believe throne of infallibility and admit you have been in the wrong to say the disgraceful things you have uttered.

He's a Moderator and he has carte blanche....

 

[Rippon]

He's a Moderator and he has carte blanche....

He can say whatever he wants with impunity.

 

[convicted1]

Brother Rippon, I agree with you 100%. :thumbs:


I am trying to pry his eyes open to what he is doing. He is basing his distain off of what others write about the 'New Calvinist Movement'. That would be akin to basing one's theology off of other theologians without ever opening their bible to see if they're right or not....

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK


While I have ordered that book...by eric williams.[mentioned in two links here}..no one has supplied anything of substance and given any full context that links Al mohler to any of the ungodliness of james 4

He is following in the steps of Driscoll (the cussing pastor)

Many questioned driscoll all along the way. Al Mohler has never been compared to driscoll....this is a false allegation....this is the typical fundy strawman, and then try to slander Al Mohler into the worldly scenario.

To lump Al Mohler into this group of persons in unjust. Calvinists never have fully accepted many of these new , contemporary cals. Everyone has been praying that the renewed energy and wild fire so to speak would settle down into a more balanced teaching and walk .

I have seen several on here{CALS} speak with caution about some of the outlandish things going on....but none have fully embraced it, and yet we pray that it is being used of God...in the same way some non cals are being used also.

You are being called on to recant some of what you have said, until and unless you can prove such accusations against an ELDER in the Church.

[FONT=&quot]James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.[/FONT]

If doctrine is not complimented by lifestyle then no matter what your doctrine is, you are not orthodox. All the correct doctrine in the world cannot make up for a worldly and ungodly lifestyle.

The truth found in james 4...does not mean that AL MOHLER is found in it.
This is like Job's comforters offering religious statements that did not fit Job's case.

 

[Iconoclast]

He can say whatever he wants with impunity.

When a mod throws his hat into the ring....he functions as anyone else.
he is not being a neutral observer at that point.

In a boxing match , you do not see the ref throwing punches at the contestants:laugh: If a mod jumps into the fray...he must abide by the rules we all said we would:thumbsup: Without threats , or demeaning brothers who are not in agreement.

I believe DHK has every right to express his concerns and offer whatever he has for support, we just want him to be accountable as we are to be:thumbsup:

DHK asked in one of these threads...what do you want me to do...BECOME A CALVINIST???? even this betrays a view that is not clear on how truth is opened up to someone.
A person does not become a Calvinist, and more than a personone day just becomes a Christian. It takes a work of Divine enablement.

Sometimes what DHK does is a bit strange, however he is at least man enough to speak openly. many others hide in the shadows and leave him to do the heavy lifting. One by one some of the anti-cal group have fallen to the wayside.

Others who do not like the teaching, cannot begin to explain themselves so they remain quiet.
If honest inquiries are made, solid biblical response would come forth with a view to help others.
When attacks come non stop, the cals answer and defend against the attacks, and it sometimes gets ugly.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So this article of yours DHK seems to pin this whole "Desperado Thing " on Tim Keller. Is it cause he is a New Yoarker and a Presbyterian? He influences many in the North East....especially in his own denomination (Presbyterian Church of America) which BTW are generally a very consertative group of upwardly mobile professional people. I don't see this radical edge you suggest...nor do I see it from Albert Mohler.

 

[steaver]

A person does not become a Calvinist, and more than a personone day just becomes a Christian. It takes a work of Divine enablement.

Oh good grief! Do all Calvinist believe as you do Icon? That we are all just puppets waiting for the Great Puppet Master to zap us into Christians and Calvinist? You are way off the deep end, I believe your fellow brothers and sisters in Calvinism would also agree that you have actually left Calvinism with your "Divine Enablement" doctrine.

 

[DHK]

I am not defending neither debasing them. I know very little about their movement. You claim you know, but you "know" based on what others have written.

It's like this...reading theologians is good to do. It's good to pick their brains on any given subject. But no one would build their theology off of what they believe(d). You need to stick your nose in the bible to find out for yourself.

You don't want to attend their services, yet demean them without any firsthand knowledge. Shame on you....

Everything I know about other religions, except for the RCC, I know from books. Whether it be other religions: Islam, Hinduism, Shintoism, etc., or cults such as the J.W.'s, Mormons, SDA's, etc., I have learned from books. I won't even go to a Charismatic church to learn about tongues. Why should I? I don't attend Calvinist churches because I don't agree with Calvinism. And yet you want me to attend a New or neo-calvinist church that sits on the edges of Orthodoxy much like the "Third Wave" sits on the edge of traditional Charismatic movement. What kind of odd-ball advice is that? It is still the same advice you gave in the beginning of your post.
I don't have to stick my head in a garbage bin to know that it is full of filth.

I provided extensive links where the message did not fit the medium. Where the medium was hip-hop, rap music, and the such, the message was changed. Read the article in its totality. The two don't go together. This was at one of Al Mohler's meetings. Why are people denying that such took place. It did. It was wrong.

http://www.newcalvinist.com/albert-mohler-and-hip-hop-culture/

 

[DHK]

DHK

While I have ordered that book...by eric williams.[mentioned in two links here}..no one has supplied anything of substance and given any full context that links Al mohler to any of the ungodliness of james 4

Many questioned driscoll all along the way. Al Mohler has never been compared to driscoll....this is a false allegation....this is the typical fundy strawman, and then try to slander Al Mohler into the worldly scenario.

To lump Al Mohler into this group of persons in unjust. Calvinists never have fully accepted many of these new , contemporary cals. Everyone has been praying that the renewed energy and wild fire so to speak would settle down into a more balanced teaching and walk .

I have seen several on here{CALS} speak with caution about some of the outlandish things going on....but none have fully embraced it, and yet we pray that it is being used of God...in the same way some non cals are being used also.

You are being called on to recant some of what you have said, until and unless you can prove such accusations against an ELDER in the Church.

What reason do I have to recant anything I have said, when what I have said has been backed up with documented evidence.
For example, Mohler's worldliness and compromised message is right here:
http://www.newcalvinist.com/albert-mohler-and-hip-hop-culture/

Any person with at least some spiritual discernment will admit this is wrong. The end does not justify the means. And the means here is wrong.

The truth found in james 4...does not mean that AL MOHLER is found in it.
This is like Job's comforters offering religious statements that did not fit Job's case.

Tell me. Do you agree with Mohler because you know of his doctrine, or would you agree with Mohler if you knew the following were true?

For Dr Mohler to allow his radio program and the Southern Baptist Seminary to be used to promote hip-hop culture is difficult to understand. As President of a Theological Seminary, Dr Mohler is a mature Christian leader, and therefore should be able ‘to discern both good and evil’ (Hebrews 5.14). He knows the command of Scripture, ‘Test all things; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil’ (1 Thessalonians 5.21-22). Surely with his deep knowledge of Scripture, and the gift of discernment that God gives to mature Christians, he must be able to recognise the wickedness of the hip hop scene. Surely he must be able to discern the worldly spirit of rap music. Surely he knows that friendship with the world is enmity with God.

http://www.newcalvinist.com/albert-mohler-and-hip-hop-culture/

 

[Iconoclast]

steaver

Oh good grief! Do all Calvinist believe as you do Icon?

I am one person Steaver. I do not speak for any group. My views are within the camp however.

That we are all just puppets waiting for the Great Puppet Master to zap us into Christians and Calvinist?

I find this kind of comment profane. God is God steaver.
He does not have to check with you to get the Okay to do what He does.

The unbiblical puppet argument is just that unbiblical.

You are way off the deep end,

I am glad to some extent that you feel that way as you are in a badly confused state of mind.:laugh:

I believe your fellow brothers and sisters in Calvinism would also agree that you have actually left Calvinism with your "Divine Enablement" doctrine.

okay....and I believe you have need to learn the biblical ...a,b c's to raise this issue...

27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given


10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Can you see it now Steaver????...guess what salvation is also ...GIVEN...by Divine enablement...they go hand in hand....:thumbsup::wavey:

 

[The Archangel]

That is like the argument "to learn what the drug addicts go through first be one. Then you can properly relate to them."
I consider the entire movement evil.
I have books in my own library, and I have given plenty of other references which anyone can easily find on the internet. I would not step into one of those churches, just as I would not step into a Charismatic church or any other church that has changed its message and lifestyle.

For those that defend the movement simply because it is related to Calvinism they should be ashamed. We have plenty of resources at our fingertips to find out just what these movements are about. It doesn't take a lot of research.

I really want to know how any poster--moderator or not--gets away with saying Calvinists (who are represented on this board) are "evil..."

DHK has already stated:

There is "The New Calvinism." And they preach 'another gospel,' which Paul had something to say about in Gal.1:6-8.

Now he says: "I consider the entire movement evil."

I once had a thread closed by Squire for using the work "Ilk." How is it that DHK gets away with this? My goodness. I guess the rules just don't matter... well... if you're a non-Calvinist or a "Moderator."

The Archangel

 

[DHK]

I really want to know how any poster--moderator or not--gets away with saying Calvinists (who are represented on this board) are "evil..."

More misrepresentation. I said a certain movement was evil.
It is also evil to lie. Why do you continue in false allegations?

DHK has already stated:

Now he says: "I consider the entire movement evil."

I once had a thread closed by Squire for using the work "Ilk." How is it that DHK gets away with this? My goodness. I guess the rules just don't matter... well... if you're a non-Calvinist or a "Moderator."

The Archangel

Get off the moderator kick. I am a poster, a member of the BB, like anyone else in here. I am not a moderator here. The only power I have is to edit my own posts, and that is all.
You are a Calvinist, a very thin-skinned and easily offended one at that. I have noticed that throughout the years. Yes, rules apply, but not your constant complaining.
I stand by what I say. When I see a movement heading towards error and evil I won't hesitate to call a spade a spade. I really don't care about your emotional problems. Stop complaining. If you believe I am wrong then demonstrate it instead of making false allegations and breaking the rules.

 

[Rippon]

I said a certain movement was evil.

And that everyone in the movement stands under the curse of Galatians 1:8,9.

Get off the moderator kick. I am a poster, a member of the BB, like anyone else in here. I am not a moderator here. The only power I have is to edit my own posts, and that is all.

No, it is not. You can, and have removed entire posts without even the poster's handle evident.

You are a Calvinist, a very thin-skinned and easily offended one at that.

Chalk me up as a person who is offended that a moderator is allowed to castigate everyone in a group and place them in the category of false teachers and under eternal condemnation with a wave of your pontiff's arm.

I stand by what I say. When I see a movement heading towards error and evil I won't hesitate to call a spade a spade. I really don't care about your emotional problems.

You sinfully libel people such as Dr. Al Mohler by accusing him of being outside Christian orthodoxy. You are wrong, wrong, wrong to do so. His Christian credentials are plain to see. You have zero discernment.

Be careful. You are treading on thin ice.

 

[DHK]

And that everyone in the movement stands under thr curse of Galatians 1:8,9.

You know not of what you speak. If New Calvinism has changed its message; if it has merged with the "Emergent Church," and other positions outside of conservative Christianity then its message has changed. You are both arrogant and ignorant to stand on ground and pass judgment when you haven't looked into this movement at all.

No, it is not. You can, and have removed entire posts without even the poster's handle evident.

Chalk me up as a person who is offendeed that a modererator is allowed to castigate everyone in a group and place them in the category of false teachers and under eternal condemnation with a wave of your pontiff's arm.

These are false allegations. Show me one post on this forum that I have edited, removed, or done anything with. Show where I have given any warning or infraction, or acted as a moderator in anyway. If you can't than apologize and keep quiet. I am not a moderator in this forum. The Squire is, not me. So stop with the false allegations.

You sinfully libel people such as Dr. Al Mohler by accusing him of being outside Christian orthodoxy. You are wrong, wrong, wrong to do so. His Christian credentials are plain to see. You have zero discernment.

Be careful. You are treading on thin ice.

I back up my statements with documented information.
You are offended. You attack me. You are the one breaking the rules.
Show me where my information is incorrect. Right now you are acting like an emotional pent-up cry-baby for you don't have any reasonable argument to put forth.

 

[Rippon]

You are both arrogant and ignorant to stand on ground and pass judgment when you haven't looked into this movement at all.

Well, that is one fat lie DHK. Who in the world do you think you are to say false things so habitually? I have indeed looked into it. I have read book reviews of the works by Williams, Hansen and Walker. I have listened to sermonaudio regarding the movement.

Do not, I repeat, do not, say untrue things.

Show me one post on this forum that I have edited, removed, or done anything with. Show where I have given any warning or infraction, or acted as a moderator in anyway.

Not in this particular thread, but in other places on the BB forum. And I can't very well prove it since it was entirely removed.

I back up my statements with documented information.

No, you do not. You have not demonstrated that all individuals connected with New Calvinism lie under the curse of Gal. 1:8,9. Your theological weaknesses are troublesome however.

You have maligned Al Mohler time and time again by saying he is outside the bounds of historic Christian orthodoxy. And the screeds you constantly quote lend no credence to your sinful charges. You think you have the perfect right to consign someone to the category of the reprobate. Well that speaks to your Christian testimony --or the lack thereof.