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Become one flesh

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Plain ol' Ralph, Oct 11, 2004.

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  1. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    That has nothing to do with the reasoning in Deut 24. Do us a favor Ralph. Study the passages and figure out what is being talked about.
     
    #81 Pastor Larry, Oct 20, 2004
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Ralph, I am not upset in the least. I am simply encouraging you to align your position with Scritpure. I have given clear evidence for mine. You have shown that you are not even aware of what the issues are. I have supported what I have siad with Scripture.
     
    #82 Pastor Larry, Oct 20, 2004
  3. Plain ol' Ralph

    Plain ol' Ralph New Member

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    No, all you have done is add your premise to those scriptures,they do NOT say what you imply at all.

    Learn to follow context, man, it helps discernment, get that "DISCERNMENT".
     
    #83 Plain ol' Ralph, Oct 20, 2004
  4. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Then show why they do not say what I and countless others have said. I have come to Scripture with no premise at all. The Scriptures are my premise. I have simply gone where they take me.

    I can't help but notice that you have not seemed eager to actually deal with the passages. You have simply accused me of reading into them and adding to them. Your accusations however do not come with evidence to back them up. Why not?
     
    #84 Pastor Larry, Oct 20, 2004
  5. Plain ol' Ralph

    Plain ol' Ralph New Member

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    The theme of the passage is that of social acceptance, or did you not read the first 5 verses?

    It that Jesus even spoke to her that caused the disciples to "marvel", or did you miss that too?

    The scripture is my evidence, and context is it's rule of measure, you're pitting scripture against scripture and inciting disharmony in your process. also you're excusing sin.
     
    #85 Plain ol' Ralph, Oct 20, 2004
  6. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    How can you say it was Moses that granted men this right to put the wife away? You need to read the whole book of Deut. again. Moses was passing on the directives and laws of God. I pointed this out earlier.

     
    #86 Marcia, Oct 20, 2004
  7. Plain ol' Ralph

    Plain ol' Ralph New Member

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    Jesus said Moses did, Sister; "But from the beginning it was not so" Is what Jesus also said.

    Like I've said before, God never allows, much less honours, a hardheart, nor has He ever allowed men to put asunder what God has joined together through Holy Matrimony.

    Man has tried the reins of God by allowing his court of law to over-ride God's Law. God institued marriage,'til death do you part. Man has granted divorce as a means to try and cover his mistakes and hardheartedness. This is doing what is right in his own eyes and surmises rebellion on his behalf.

    It is the Lord that sanctifieth, man does his best to negate that sanctity by his allowing that which is contrary to holiness; obviously,many need more than one lesson in holiness unto the Lord.
     
    #87 Plain ol' Ralph, Oct 21, 2004
  8. MTA

    MTA New Member

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    Ralph:
    I am offended by your accusation. Not only is it without provocation, it is also entirely unfounded. I have neither said nor implied any thing that can remotely be construed as blasphemy.

    What gives you the right to levy such an accusation?
     
    #88 MTA, Oct 21, 2004
  9. Plain ol' Ralph

    Plain ol' Ralph New Member

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    I labeled it, friend,as the Lord has labeled it, you're offended at the Lord,not me, I am just His messenger, go get mad at the mailman for delivering the mail, or best, get under a different label.

    I am on your side, not against you, that may seem strange, but holiness is for us, not against us.
     
    #89 Plain ol' Ralph, Oct 21, 2004
  10. MTA

    MTA New Member

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    The only message you are delivering is "Ralph's message." The Lord is not in it. Your impudence and lack of Christian character is to be pitied.
     
    #90 MTA, Oct 21, 2004
  11. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    But what Moses said in Deut. was from God!!! How can you read Deut. and not know that? It is crystal clear and I showed that from the context and from citing the relevant verses. Whatever Moses said in giving laws and directives was from God. When Jesus refers to Moses, he does not mean it was Moses' idea!

    Please show from Deut., in context, where this was all just from Moses' own views and how it is NOT from God.
     
    #91 Marcia, Oct 21, 2004
  12. Plain ol' Ralph

    Plain ol' Ralph New Member

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    When you show me Moses' complete obedience to the LORD in smiting the rock the second time, I'll agree with you, but in this topic, Jesus clearly has shown where Moses only made allowance for the flesh, just in case you didn't know, the flesh is at enmity with God, so go figure.
     
    #92 Plain ol' Ralph, Oct 22, 2004
  13. Plain ol' Ralph

    Plain ol' Ralph New Member

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    So taking your cheap shot at my character for proclaiming the Righteousness of God and honouring His Moral Law is "Christian"? Uh, Brother, can we not discuss the issues at hand w/o taking offense? I meant none offense, Sir, I was only doing my duty to make everyone aware of the stance they make is contrary to the teachings of the Spirit. Don't attack me because you have been duped by the liberal attitudes towards the things of God, BTW, which I would be real careful in speaking evil against the Law of God.

    Just of note, Jesus was speaking to the scribes and Pharisees concerning divorce, they highly regarded the letter of the Law, but the Spirit giveth life, the letter killeth.

    He spoke to Hillel, He spoke to the Shammai, He informed them marrying her that was put away causeth her to commit adultry, He then informed them "What God hath joined together, LET NO MAN PUT ASUNDER", so that right there fully indicates that since life is in the Hand of God, death is the only instrument whereby the marriage vow can be released.

    Now please learn the Truth, and retract the extension of your feelings to their proper place? [​IMG]
     
    #93 Plain ol' Ralph, Oct 22, 2004
  14. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Do you think God's prophets are all perfect? The Bible clearly shows they had failings and did wrong things. That has nothing to do with the clear indications IN GOD'S WORD that these words were directives from God. You are not reading Deut. in total -- read the passages I cited earlier. It says "all these laws" and instructions are from the Lord!
     
    #94 Marcia, Oct 23, 2004
  15. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    POR, show me how you determine what Moses said was from God and what wasn't from God. Please cite verses where Moses is giving the laws and tell me which are from God and which aren't. Are the verses following Deut. 24.5 from God but before that aren't? Which verses in Deut 23 are from God and which from Moses? Are all the instructions below from Moses and not from God? Then at the end of these commands, which all come together, is God lying in Deut 26.16 when he says these commands are from Him?

     
    #95 Marcia, Oct 23, 2004
  16. Plain ol' Ralph

    Plain ol' Ralph New Member

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    You'd best read the Book of Malachi before you accept what you're trying to say, dear, God never made allowance for divorce, He hates the putting away. You are confusing the historical with the command, and besides still God never honours the effects of a hardheart, only does he not despise a broken and contrite heart, you are even pitting the Almighty against His own Word here, not advised.

    Iknow, I know, I'm using logic again, :rolleyes: but since when does a mere man's logic outhink God? Never. Learn to reason WITH God, not try to outreason what His Attributes portray.

    Here wrestle with this:

    Single: not have made a vow of matrimony

    Widowed: made a vow and the vehicle of death has released the one living from that vow of matrimony

    Married: One who is required to maintain the vow of matrimony until death parts the spouse from the other.

    Divorce: the hardhearted response in being hateful and unforgiving; the marital vow broken, but still a vow.

    It is better never to have made a vow than to break a vow.
     
    #96 Plain ol' Ralph, Oct 25, 2004
  17. manchester

    manchester New Member

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    The union can be broken in fact (physical separation), and it can be broken under man's laws, but not in God's eyes. That is why a man who "divorces" his wife commits adultery if he remarries - he is still married in God's eyes.
     
    #97 manchester, Oct 25, 2004
  18. manchester

    manchester New Member

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    Is every woman who remarries "defiled"? I know it's not the direct point of that scripture, but it might be implied. And is every woman who sleeps with more than one man in her lifetime irreparably "defiled" in this way? Is the woman an abomination, or remarriage to the first husband an abomination?
     
    #98 manchester, Oct 25, 2004
  19. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene New Member

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    The "defilement" is the stigma ascribed to the wife by the husband divorcing her; it would be wrong, in God's law, for him to accept her back again after "defiling" her in such a way.

    Nobody is ever "irreparably" defiled; God's forgiveness can cover whatever sins we commit in terms of adultary, divorce, remarriage, whatever.

    People with a history of divorce and remarriage all contrary to God's commands can repent, live good lives and be reconciled with God, and SHOULD NOT ADD TO THEIR SINS BY HAVING ANOTHER DIVORCE.
     
    #99 Paul of Eugene, Oct 25, 2004
  20. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I am not in favor of divorce. I am simply making the point that Moses' words on divorce in Deut 24 were given to him by God. It is crystal clear from the context, as I showed. Otherwise, we could all pick out from the book of Deut what is from God and what isn't based on our beliefs. It is repeated over and over that the list of laws and regulations that Moses gives are from the Lord.
     
    #100 Marcia, Oct 25, 2004
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