Become one flesh

You've made my point by not addressing the verse and instead drawing attention away from it, just as I predicted. Typical for you.

 

quote:
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But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
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Guys, have to admit I am a bit fearful posting in this thread. A lot of emotion and heated discussion everywhere.

I have an honest interpretive question regarding this verse that I have considered for some time. Any thoughts to it's legitimacy (or lack thereof) would be appreciated. That said:

Does the exception clause apply to both parts of the compound sentence? Why or why not?

Also, could the interpretation be that someone who is unfaithful is already an adulterer/adulteress. If you divorce for this reason (the exception clause) then you are not causing them to become this. If you divorce for any other reason and your spouse remarries, you are causing them to commit adultery.

Wouldn't this interpretation be more consistent with the parallel Gospel accounts as well as Paul's discussion regarding death being the only law to break the law of marriage?

 

I asked you a specific question, and you refused to answer, just as I predicted you would.

The old "I adressed that before so I ignored your post" is typical KJVO double speak.

However, giving you the benefit of the doubt, please answer my question, then. When Jesus clearly permits divorce in cases of adultery, how can it be that he doesn't mean what he's saying?

 

I don't believe I'm adding anything to scripture Ralph. Operative words from Jesus "saving for the cause of". You're detracting from the Words of Christ and reading your own interpretation into it. So, is Jesus giving a double standard? Don't think so. </font>[/QUOTE]So, by your estimation, is marriage holy, or not?

Is divorce, which opens the possibility for the sin of adultry, then permissible by He who is Holy, thrice HOLY? Nope, never!!! It is in direct contradiction to His order, character, attributes, mercy, forgiveness, compassion, charity, COMMANDMENTS, etc, etc. </font>[/QUOTE]Like I said, Ralph, argue with Christ. He's the one who said it. It doesn't matter what my estimation of anything is. It does however matter what Christ said, which you seem to be unable to accept. Divorce only opens the possibility for the sin of adultery if it isn't caused by fornication. Again, refer back to the operative words "save for the cause of fornication". Again, argue with God, Ralph. It's HIS Word.

 

Actually, Ralph, you've side stepped them with attacks on other people's righteousness in an attempt to make yourself look more spiritual. I believe the Pharisees did this many times. Do you fit the mold?

 

Ralph, I have neither added or subtracted. Christ is the one who gave the permissible reason for divorce. It does not say that those who are divorced for this reason "commit adultery" (that's you're own personal interpretation...again, taken out of context) if they remarry.

As far as manufacturing the "mold", I don't believe I did as it has been around for centuries. So, again, another attack from Ralph..typical. Why don't you grow up Ralph? You're still sidestepping the issues and adding your own interpretations.

 

I haven't read all the post in this thread because it's too long but I do have a question. While I do not believe in divorce, I am divorced and remarried. I was married for 26 yrs and it was a hard and difficult marriage. There is just so much emotional abuse a person can take and I did praying many, many, times throughout those 26 yrs for me to change, for him to change and yet no matter what I did, it was not right. The day I left, was because of an on going argument we had, had for 3 days. He was a very obsessive person and no matter what I did to try and please, there was always something else he wanted out of me. At one point in our marriage, I felt like a failure. We had lost a child in an accident and the relationship with our other child wasn't real good so as a wife and mother,I felt like a complete failure. So on this particular Sat. after we had, had another disagreement, I sat down in my chair and took an overdose of pills. He was sitting at his desk and never knew what I had done. I told him I was going to the bedroom to lie down and had our son not come in when he did, I'm not sure what would have happened. I would not go to the hospital but he talked with some of my family who came and you would have to know them to appreciate them but I DID go to the hospital. From the ER I was sent to another hospital to the psych. unit for 3 days. After being released I continued to see the psychiatrist and eventually got better. What he would do to control me if I didn't bow to his every whim was take the gun into the bathroom and threaten suicide. I couldn't tell you how many times he did this and finally I just got to where I would go and site in the den and wait on the gun shot which of course never occurred. The day I left, I knew if I got out alive, I would never go back. I had tried to leave just to go and talk with my sister and he would not let me leave. He held my arms so tight that I had bruises. I got hysterical and He finally told me if I would calm down and talk, he would call my mother. At that point, I knew if my mother came to the house that I would be out of there and that's exactly what happened. I stayed angry along time because I knew that marriage was not supposed to be as it was with us. Both of us are Christians, snd divorce had not been in my vocabulary, ever, but I knew that I could not go back and survive. So given what little I have told you and there is much more but it would take too long to write - where do I stand and my now husband stand with the Lord concerning divorce and our remarrying? We have found recently that divorce seems to be more frowned upon then murder. Neither of us approved of divorce and because of what the Bible says, we weren't sure about marrying either but we have been married for 6 yrs now and even though we have had problems, partly due to the baggage we both brought with us into our marriage and some of the problems were due to the stress of my family having sickness and we also gained custody of my grandchild. But have we done wrong in God's eyes? We know what the Bible says but in this, is their not forgivness? Are we to remain single for the rest of our lives when our situation in our first marriage was so intolerable that suicide seemed better than living there? I told one pastor that I had rather be dead then to go back, and I meant it. I am sorry that I felt I had to leave and divorce but I am not sorry that I am away from him. I found out later after he made a feeble attempt at suicide that he was a dangerous person. I was told this by his social worker at the hospital and that I should get a restraining order. I did not believe that but then one morning he called and threaten my family. I went to the probate court and because of what his psychiatrist told them, he was taken to Columbia to the hospital there for 2 weeks. We have since had very little communication, only when it comes to our grandchild and this past weekend our son was married at our house and he was invited and came. Now knowing what I know the Bible says and reading some of your posts, where do we stand as far as God is concerned? I have had being divorced thrown up in my face because if you're divorced you have no right to say anything about anyone else doing anything wrong.
I know this is long and I am sorry but I would like your input on this.
Thank you.

 

Again, another libel...guess that's all you can do, isn't it Ralph? When you can't answer you resort to ad hominem attacks....typical.

 

I understand but do you think I would have given 26 yrs of my life if I wasn't trying my best to make that marriage work? Until someone walks in your shoes, you don't have a clue what it's like. I've talked with other men and they seem to be able to take things in stride and go about doing whatever they want whether their wives fuss alot or not. I was not able to do anything without him and he was beginning to get to the point where I couldn't even see my family. We had been to counseling on more than one occassion and I did my best to do as a wife is supposed to do but it was never GOOD enough. Believe me, when I say I spent many hours on my knees praying for my marriage and to love him as I should but when I left even though I was angry, it was like a big boulder was lifted off of my shoulders. I believe that particular day, God opened the door and said to get out and get out Now. I know he hates divorce, so do I but there are times when a person is being destroyed that I believe God does not want that to happen. He was supposed to be a Christian - but who do you think made sure our children went to church, who do you think worked enough so they could go to a Christian school, who do you think thought of the children before self and husband before self. A saint I am not, but I did all I knew to do to make that marriage work and I couldn't. If you were to talk to anyone who knew him and knew me, they would tell you about him. Many people asked me "What took you so long." But enough explaning, there is none when the Bible clearly states that God haes divorce. That is something I have to live wih and ask that he has forgiven me.

 

Ralph, you can continue to resort to ad hominem attacks on everyone on this board, but it doesn't make you right. It does, however, continue to make you look foolish. You can accuse me of not understanding, but I understand, and have dealt with your sect of "Christianity" for many years in the ministry. It's a shame to see Christ's name and principles dragged through the mud by your sect.

 

Oh the irony of discussing a text that hinges on the hardness of man's heart and then seeing it demonstrated with name calling, personal assessments of another's intellect or the lack there of....

Matthew 19:4-8
(4 -6) And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

The union of a man and woman is not merely metaphoric for the sexual union. It is as if two cups of sand are poured into a common container and stirred. Once mixed, it would be impossible to distinguish what belonged to whom and the two - once distinct - become one. One flesh and joined implies that blurring of the distinction between the spouses physically, emotionally and spiritually. To rend that comes at great consequence considering it would be man's effort to undo what God had created. In the same respect, introducing a third party (adultery) into the mix corrupts the whole lot.

(7-8)They *said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?” He *said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

Look at this verse backwards, as it were:

1. " but from the beginning it has not been this way" God's perfect plan for marriage was a permanent plan while both lived. As in the marriage ceremony, "Til death us do part."

2. " Moses permitted you to divorce your wives" This does not put the Law Writer in opposition to the Law Giver. Numerous times Moses interceded for the people - in spite of their sinfulness - and begged for mercy and God listened to Moses. (Ex 32:9-14; Num 14:11-21) God still had to grant the concession. He is the Law Giver and not Moses. Moses had no authority to modify God's decree even though it appears he had the influence to appeal it.

3. " Because of your hardness of heart" The concession was not granted because God abandoned the idea of one flesh. That was and is God's perfect plan. Allowing divorce is an acknowledgement that the human condition (sinful) can and does cause great harm between people. Divorce was permitted in cases of extremity not at the whimsy of burnt toast and spending too much time with the in-laws. Is God consistent? Consider Paul, "1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body." An immoral married man sins against his wife's body as well. Allowing divorce under these narrow circumstances is for the protection of the wounded party and not to grant license to the offender.