beer and religion?

[Rev. Joshua]

Do you get your hair "cut" or head "shaved"???

This is a specious distinctions. Nazarites did not cut or shorten their hair in any way (see the story of Sampson).

To be saved, you have to make the "vow of a Nazarite".

No, you have to accept that you are a sinner incapable of achieving your own salvation and that Jesus death is the only thing that can win your freedom from the bondage of sin. No other vows, promises, rituals, or obligations required.

Joshua

 

[Mike McK]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rev. Joshua Villines:
Do you get your hair "cut" or head "shaved"???

This is a specious distinctions. Nazarites did not cut or shorten their hair in any way (see the story of Sampson).

To be saved, you have to make the "vow of a Nazarite".

No, you have to accept that you are a sinner incapable of achieving your own salvation and that Jesus death is the only thing that can win your freedom from the bondage of sin. No other vows, promises, rituals, or obligations required.

Joshua<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Mike

http://www.keylife.org

 

[Mike McK]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S. Baptist:


1. Nu 6:1 When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a
Nazarite,
1A. Ro 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your
bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.


2. Nu 6:1 to separate themselves unto the LORD:
2A. Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord,

2. Nu 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink,
2A. Tit 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not
soon angry, not given to wine,

3. Nu 6:5 All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his
head:
3A. 1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a
shame unto him?

Do you get your hair "cut" or head "shaved"???


To be saved, you have to make the "vow of a Nazarite".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure how those verses show that Jesus was, or that we have to be, a Nazerite.

Mike

http://www.keylife.org

 

[PackerBacker]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S. Baptist:


To be saved, you have to make the "vow of a Nazarite".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What do you mean by this?

 

[Dr. Bob]

Jesus was not a Nazarite, with vows concerning hair, alcohol, women.

He was a Nazarene, that is a person who grew up in the hometown of Nazareth.

Let's not discuss the merits of alcohol on this thread. Someone can certainly start a new thread on "should christians drink" and I guarantee both sides will jump in!!

 

[Rev. Joshua]

Excuse me a moment, I have to stretch before I do the...

Bob and I agree dance!!!

Joshua

 

[S. Baptist]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PackerBacker:


What do you mean by this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you make a vow to serve the Lord when you were saved and stop working for personal
gain, but the Lord's gain??

Did you make a vow to separate yourself from the "world" and the "things of the world", or
the "lust of the flesh" and to be a "peculiar people"??

You'll have to "Crucify the Old man" with this same vow to serve the Lord, before he'll save
you.

And YES, Jesus was a Nazarite, he came to fulfill "ALL the "LAW", and that includes the law
governing a "Nazarite". He was Jewish.

 

[Mike McK]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S. Baptist:
[QB]

Did you make a vow to serve the Lord when you were saved and stop working for personal
gain, but the Lord's gain??

Did you make a vow to separate yourself from the "world" and the "things of the world", or
the "lust of the flesh" and to be a "peculiar people"??

You'll have to "Crucify the Old man" with this same vow to serve the Lord, before he'll save
you.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

S.Baptist,

These things are all good and all things that we, as Christians, should do but that's not the same as taking a Nazerite vow.

The Nazerites were a specific Jewish sect. Simply because Jesus was Jewish doesn't mean that He took a Nazerite vow.

The verses of scripture that you quoted earlier don't show that He did and, to my knowledge there aren't any verses that indicate that He did.

How did you come to the conclusion that Jesus took a Nazerite vow.

May I ask how long your hair and beard are?

Mike

http://www.keylife.org

 

[Chris Temple]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S. Baptist:
You'll have to "Crucify the Old man" with this same vow to serve the Lord, before he'll save you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where did you get this unbiblical soteriology? Who can clean themselves up at all, especially prior to salvation, and how is this not works salvation??

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And YES, Jesus was a Nazarite, he came to fulfill "ALL the "LAW", and that includes the law governing a "Nazarite". He was Jewish.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


S. Baptist:

This is more than a little embarrassing. I can see the initial error of equating "Nazarene" with "Nazarite", but when a more learned brother has gently corrected you, why do you persist with the childish argument, "Yes, He was"?.

Based upon this and other threads I think it would be wise for you to study a bit more the topic of discussion before posting with such authority.

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Chris Temple ]

 

[Roy]

Maybe some of the more learned scholarly types will comment on whether my following remarks are right or wrong. When listening to J. Vernon McGee one day, I think I heard him say that the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament uses different words to distinguish between fermented wine and non-fermented wine. He said that passover wine is non-fermented, because leaven is needed to make fermented wine, and the original text uses the word that refers to the non-fermented variety when speaking of passover wine.

I think that New Testament writings were in Greek, and I can't remember if Dr.McGee commented on whether or not the Greek text makes a distinction between the fermented and non-fermented wine. At any rate when making Biblical decisions concerning alcohol use, it is good to consider both the text and context of the Biblical references.

 

[Ransom]

Psalm145 3 said:

Why are you so quick to believe the accusers?

We do not believe the accusers, who accused Christ of gluttony and drunkenness (Matt. 11:19), but Christ himself, who admitted to "eating and drinking."

Lest ye turn this around and say that it doesn't mention what Christ was drinking (so it could be anything), I point out that he is contrasting himself with John the Baptist who was "neither eating nor drinking" (v. 18) and yet seems to have not died of dehydration.

When Jesus made the water into wine at the marriage in Cana, it had to be unfermented, non-alchoholic.

Had to be?

Habakkuk 2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also...

This typically abused verse, in context, is a prophecy against Babylon.

But taking it at face value, notice that it doesn't condemn drinking wine per se, but plying someone with wine in order to get him drunk so you can take advantage of him.

 

[Ps104_33]

smoke,
How do you know that Jesus had long hair? Is it because of all the roman catholic art? Just asking. I'm not sayin he did or didnt but just would like to know why people think he did.

 

[Ransom]

S. Baptist said:

And YES, Jesus was a Nazarite, he came to fulfill "ALL the "LAW", and that includes the law governing a "Nazarite". He was Jewish.

"The law governing a 'Nazarite'" also said that these vows were optional. If Jesus had taken a Nazarite vow and submitted to the conditions laid out, he would have been fulfilling the law; if he never did, he still would have been fulfilling the law; and if he was a Nazarite only temporarily, he still would have been fulfilling the law. The Nazarite regulations allow for all three possibilities.

 

[Ransom]

S. Baptist said:

3. Nu 6:5 All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his
head:
3A. 1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

Do you get your hair "cut" or head "shaved"???

A false distinction, as the Bible also says, explicitly, that during the days of his separation, the Nazarite "shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow."

In other words, no cutting, no shaving, no Nair. Just growing.

 

[Ransom]

S. Baptist said:

If you're to "Conform to his image", you have to be a "Nazarite" also.

Do we have to get nailed to a cross for the sins of the world, too? Or are you just being selective in what part of his "image" we are to conform to?

The Scriptures never say that Christ was a Nazirite.

 

[ChristianCynic]

&lt; To be saved, you have to make the "vow of a Nazarite". &gt;

What idiocacy. Making vows is forbidden to Christians-- Matthew 5:34; James 5:12. And people saw quite a contrast between Jesus and John the Baptist, who in fact was forbidden from wine or liquor (Matthew 11; Luke 1:15), though the word Nazarite was not used.

And if Christians are to be Nazarites, do we never touch a razor to our heads unless someone defiles us by dying next to us, in which case we then shave our heads and offer 2 doves at the tent of meeting (Numbers 6:6-10)? You get into a deep mudhole trying to keep all these ceremonial requirements, and if we could be saved by doing that, there was no need for God to send His Son to make a better way possible.

 

[Mike McK]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ps104_33:
smoke,
How do you know that Jesus had long hair? Is it because of all the roman catholic art? Just asking. I'm not sayin he did or didnt but just would like to know why people think he did.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Roman Catholic art, LOL! That's a good one.

I don't recall saying that Jesus had long hair or short hair. I have no way of knowing, but I can't wait to find out one day.

If I had to guess, I'd say that He had curly hair like most men from that part of the world seem to have and, given the time and the "blue collar" culture He came from, probably long-ish hair. My Jewish friends used to call it a "Jew-fro".

I do think that the pictures we all saw in Sunday School as kids that make Him out to look like Ted Nugent are probably not accurate.

Mike

http://www.keylife.org