Behold!... I Stand At The Door And Knock

[MrW]

Ephesians 2: 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

You can't repent if you're DEAD!... Only live people repent... And lo and behold if you can repent to God, who do you belong to... The Devil?... No you're still a born again child of God ( a rebellious one) that took a wrong turn... Brother Glen

We’re not DEAD. We are dead to God, meaning we need a Mediator to get us back together.

Were we DEAD, we’d be in a graveyard.

 

[tyndale1946]

It’s not a plea. It’s a statement of fact.

Take it or leave it.

Its for disciples, only for those that have the love of God in their heart... Take it or leave it!... Brother Glen

1 John 4: 7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

 

[AustinC]

I guess when I read guys like John Bunyan in "Saved By Grace", I see his theology of God's sovereignty as being more of an emphasis on just what lengths and over the top astounding love and preparation goes into the salvation of an individual. This is contrasted to an emphasis on proper exegesis and a tendency to use God's sovereignty as a way to LIMIT or hinder people from coming to Christ. It is indeed outrageous and astounding to see Jesus standing at the door of someone's heart and entreating them to come. But yet most of these Calvinist Puritans looked at God as doing this very thing and they were very aware of how outrageous it is. Here's Bunyan:

"To see a prince entreat a beggar to receive an alms would be a strange sight; to see a king entreat the traitor to accept of
mercy would be a stranger sight than that; but to see God entreat a sinner, to hear Christ say, 'I stand at the door and
knock,' with a heart full and a heaven full of grace to bestow upon him that opens, this is such a sight as dazzles the eyes
of angels. What sayest now, sinner? Is not this God rich in mercy? Hath not this God great love for sinners?"

I'm not sure what the objection is to this kind of imagery. Bunyan was in no way saying that God is not sovereign in this whole thing. He does show a lot of concern for the fact that in those days it seemed a common objection was that Jesus would not receive someone who had been a sinner and folks were afraid they could not come to Jesus. He seemed to be trying everything to convince people that this was not the case.

Every Reformed believer knows and sees the extraordinary love and grace of God extended to those whom Jesus chooses to save. Bunyan, Newton, Livingstone, etc., all were struck by this amazing grace. Indeed, that God would choose to save even one person, let alone billions of people is beyond amazing.
The King, commands a special ops team that breaks into Sin's prison and free's those who are enslaved with no hope and who don't deserve being freed. That is something the angels (the special ops) long to understand.
When you read Jesus, he tells people they need Him. He also refuses anyone who imagines that they can be co-saviors with Him. To those people who demand they have a say in their salvation, He tells them that the Father hasn't chosen them. Read John 10 and see how Jesus says it works.

 

[tyndale1946]

We’re not DEAD. We are dead to God, meaning we need a Mediator to get us back together.

Were we DEAD, we’d be in a graveyard.

Its called the doctrine of Total Depravity which it we have no ability within ourselves to come to God... God has to bring us... And he does as there is evidence... To me if a man has the love of God in him, where did he get it?... He wasn't born with it... Psalm 51:5 tells how we all come into this world... We are born into this world as Adams children, his sin was pass down to us... The only way we get the love of God is if God put it there... It called regeneration, or born again... I pose this question did you have anything to do with your natural birth?... Then you have nothing to do with your spiritual either!... Sorry I rambled on and on and this is a lot to digest but someone said well man needs a man to save him and he sent one, his own Son... God saved us, we don't need to save ourselves, God is completely in charge of our eternal Salvation... The Glory belongs only to him... Brother Glen

 

[Alan Gross]

Its for disciples, only for those that have the love of God in their heart... Take it or leave it!... Brother Glen

1 John 4: 7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

Yeah. "Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?" Malachi 3:8

This passage in Revelation is not a departure from John's heart and messages, or the Lord's heart, where John wrote, among other things, about Jesus speaking to His saved children and saying, in John 14:23; "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

By returning in love, to their first love like others in Revelation, they open the door to Jesus and the Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him," and Commune and sup in fellowship with their child, in a close loving relationship, instead of being on the outside of their worship assembly.

 

[Alan Gross]

We are dead to God, meaning we need a Mediator to get us back together.

How does that happen?

When God Convicts of our hopeless condition as guilty lawbreakers who have offended His Holiness and our lost,

that God then is able to Pardon and save in a Spiritual New Birth, by the lost soul being given Repentance and Faith to trust in the Finished Work and blood of Jesus and His resurrection from the dead, having accomplished and acquired the power of Life over Death, mane?

Were we DEAD, we’d be in a graveyard.

Nobody is talking about physical death being in that passage.

We are physically alive, but,

"We are dead to God", as you say.

It what way?

It must be "dead", in a way that required the Quickening of the Holy Spirit of God in the New Birth.

That is what God says a lost soul needs.

"You must be Born again."

What needs to be Born again?

The spiritually dead soul of a lost person.

For a spiritually dead person to be told to "open the door of their heart" does not cause God to Quicken them and so, if they choose to think they have "opened their heart" they have done so without Regeneration and are still spiritually dead and lost in their sins.

They still have no Mediator to bridge the gap between God and man, which for man is impossible, as spiritually dead sinners.

 

[DaveXR650]

When you read Jesus, he tells people they need Him. He also refuses anyone who imagines that they can be co-saviors with Him. To those people who demand they have a say in their salvation, He tells them that the Father hasn't chosen them. Read John 10 and see how Jesus says it works.

The people in John 10 seem to actively hate Jesus. They are not people who come to Jesus to be saved and did not have a correct view of free will. They are not people who simply think they can come to Christ or open a door or receive Jesus into their hearts, either. These are people who oppose Jesus, consciously and with their will, and hate Him. That they don't believe and hate Jesus because they are not chosen is true but there is never anyone who is told they are not allowed to just believe or to come to Jesus. Those folks are never told they were not chosen.

 

[Alan Gross]

Its called the doctrine of Total Depravity which it we have no ability within ourselves to come to God... God has to bring us... And he does as there is evidence... To me if a man has the love of God in him, where did he get it?... He wasn't born with it... Psalm 51:5 tells how we all come into this world... We are born into this world as Adams children, his sin was pass down to us... The only way we get the love of God is if God put it there... It called regeneration, or born again... I pose this question did you have anything to do with your natural birth?... Then you have nothing to do with your spiritual either!... Sorry I rambled on and on and this is a lot to digest but someone said well man needs a man to save him and he sent one, his own Son... God saved us, we don't need to save ourselves, God is completely in charge of our eternal Salvation... The Glory belongs only to him... Brother Glen

London Confession of Faith:

3. They (Adam and Eve in the Fall of man) being the (f) root, and by Gods appointment, standing in the room, and stead of all mankind; the guilt of the Sin was imputed, and corrupted nature conveyed, to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation, being now (g) conceived in Sin, and by nature children (h) of wrath, the servants of Sin, the subjects (i) of death and all other miseries, spiritual, temporal and eternal, unless the Lord Jesus (k) set them free.
f Rom. 5.12-19. 1 Cor. 15.21,22.45.49.

• 
  g Ps. 51.5. Job 14.4.
  
  h Eph. 2.3.
  
  i Rom. 6.20. & ch. 5.12.
  
  k Heb. 2.14. 1 Thes. 1.10.
  

From this original corruption, whereby we are (l) utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do (m) proceed all actual transgressions.

l Rom. 8.7. Col. 1.21.

• 
  m Jam. 1 14,15. Mat. 15.19.
  

 

[AustinC]

The people in John 10 seem to actively hate Jesus. They are not people who come to Jesus to be saved and did not have a correct view of free will. They are not people who simply think they can come to Christ or open a door or receive Jesus into their hearts, either. These are people who oppose Jesus, consciously and with their will, and hate Him. That they don't believe and hate Jesus because they are not chosen is true but there is never anyone who is told they are not allowed to just believe or to come to Jesus. Those folks are never told they were not chosen.

What does Jesus tell you?
*John 10:1-30*
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” There was again a division among the Jews because of these words. Many of them said, “He has a demon, and is insane; why listen to him?” Others said, “These are not the words of one who is oppressed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?” At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

 

[DaveXR650]

Yes. I was aware of and able to find John 10 and read it before I posted above.

 

[AustinC]

Yes. I was aware of and able to find John 10 and read it before I posted above.

Good. Then it should be obvious to you.

 

[DaveXR650]

Good. Then it should be obvious to you.

Indeed. A lot is.

 

[MrW]

Its called the doctrine of Total Depravity which it we have no ability within ourselves to come to God... God has to bring us... And he does as there is evidence... To me if a man has the love of God in him, where did he get it?... He wasn't born with it... Psalm 51:5 tells how we all come into this world... We are born into this world as Adams children, his sin was pass down to us... The only way we get the love of God is if God put it there... It called regeneration, or born again... I pose this question did you have anything to do with your natural birth?... Then you have nothing to do with your spiritual either!... Sorry I rambled on and on and this is a lot to digest but someone said well man needs a man to save him and he sent one, his own Son... God saved us, we don't need to save ourselves, God is completely in charge of our eternal Salvation... The Glory belongs only to him... Brother Glen

I am quite familiar with it. It is called Total Depravity but it is defined as Total Inability, inaccurately. God gives everyone the ability to come to Christ or to refuse Him, thus making them responsible and not He Himself for the fact they are lost.

Actually, I did have something to do with my physical birth and my spiritual birth, both. The baby gives off hormones that cause its mother to go into labor and thus birth him or her.

As for my spiritual birth, God commanded me to believe and be saved. I did and I am, and all the glory is His, for salvation is of the LORD. All I "did" was receive it as His free gift to me, thus I am entitled to none.

 

[37818]

The baby gives off hormones that cause its mother to go into labor . . . .

The baby has no conscious decision in that.

 

[John of Japan]

I don't disagree. How can they hear without a preacher?
My question regarding salvation is the teaching that a person can "invite" Jesus into their heart. Rev 3:20 is often used to convey that thought, even though Rev 3:20 says nothing of the sort.

Understood. But the argument for Rev. 3:20 as a salvation invitation does not depend on the phrase "in the heart." Theologically, where Christ enters into is not the heart but the spirit.

Having said that, it would be inaccurate to say that Christ does not dwell within us, based on Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." I don't know that you say this, but some do.

 

[John of Japan]

Its called the doctrine of Total Depravity which it we have no ability within ourselves to come to God... God has to bring us... And he does as there is evidence... To me if a man has the love of God in him, where did he get it?... He wasn't born with it... Psalm 51:5 tells how we all come into this world... We are born into this world as Adams children, his sin was pass down to us... The only way we get the love of God is if God put it there... It called regeneration, or born again... I pose this question did you have anything to do with your natural birth?... Then you have nothing to do with your spiritual either!... Sorry I rambled on and on and this is a lot to digest but someone said well man needs a man to save him and he sent one, his own Son... God saved us, we don't need to save ourselves, God is completely in charge of our eternal Salvation... The Glory belongs only to him... Brother Glen

Actually, many non-Calvinists believe in total depravity. I myself taught it in my doctrines class yesterday. Our textbook by Rylie uses that term. What is not believed by non-TULIP followers is "total inability," which is the correct Calvinist formulation.

 

[AustinC]

Understood. But the argument for Rev. 3:20 as a salvation invitation does not depend on the phrase "in the heart." Theologically, where Christ enters into is not the heart but the spirit.

Having said that, it would be inaccurate to say that Christ does not dwell within us, based on Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." I don't know that you say this, but some do.

Using Rev 3:20, the preacher makes the human, behind the door, the cause agent of whether Jesus can enter or not. This is why the use of this verse leads to the teaching that the unsaved sinner must "invite" Jesus into his heart by opening the door that Jesus is knocking upon. The human becomes the cause and Jesus becomes the effected person who must wait for the person behind the door to make a decision. Such an idea goes contrary to the gospel in which Jesus is always the cause agent who chooses to enter the dungeon in which the sinner is shackled and held captive by Sin in order to free the sinner by Jesus might and power over Sin.

 

[Jerome]

Wow, such a contrast between the previous comment and what Particular Baptists of the 1600s taught on this:

Hanserd Knollys, The World to Come (1681)

"Open your hearts to Christ, when he knocks at the Door of your Souls, and calls you to come to him, to receive him, and let him come into your hearts, and dwell in your hearts by his holy Spirit, and sanctifying Grace, Rev. 3.20. Behold I stand at the Door and knock, if any man hear my voice, and will open the Door, . . I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. If the Sinner be willing to open the door of his heart, Christ will come in by his holy Spirit, and HE will communicate of his Grace to his Soul."


John Bunyan, The Doctrine of the Law and Grace Unfolded (1685)

"Object[ion]: But, I am afraid the day of Grace is past, and if it should be so, what should I do then?
Answ[er]:...doth the Lord knock still at the door of thy Heart by his Word and Spirit? If so, then the day of Grace is not past with thy Soul; for where he doth so knock, there he doth also proffer, and promise to come in and Sup, (that is, to Communicate of his things unto them) which he would not do, was the day of Grace past with the Soul, Rev. 3. 20."


Benjamin Keach, The Glory of God's Rich Grace Displayed (1694)

"O know you, Sinners, this Day, that Jesus Christ, this glorious King, and Prince of the Kings of the Earth, this mighty Saviour is come to your Doors: Behold, I stand at the Door and knock: Rev. 3.20. Will you not open the Door, nor cry to him to help you to open to him, to enable you to believe in him? What do you say, shall the Son of God stand at your Doors, and you not so much as ask, Who is there? Who is at my Door? Shall Christ be kept out of your Hearts, and stand at your Doors, whilst Sin commands the chiefest Room, and has absolute Power over you, and rules in you? How will you be able to look this Blessed Saviour in the Face another Day?"

 

[DaveXR650]

@Jerome . We've already been over that. I used Owen, Edwards and Bonar among others. Some of the guys on here just don't get it. The fact is if you sense Jesus knocking on the door of your heart or in any way convicting you or drawing you then you can know that the Spirit is at work. It does not amount to "self salvation" or you trying to be "in control" if you simply respond. Thanks for the illustrations from Knollys and Keach as I was unaware of those examples. Bunyan though I was familiar with.

As a side note, it's also interesting that if you look up Martyn Lloyd-Jones sermon on Revelation 3:20 he says it should never be used evangelistically. But right before that statement he was quoting Wesley so I don't think that is much comfort to the extreme Calvinists on here.

 

[AustinC]

@Jerome . We've already been over that. I used Owen, Edwards and Bonar among others. Some of the guys on here just don't get it. The fact is if you sense Jesus knocking on the door of your heart or in any way convicting you or drawing you then you can know that the Spirit is at work. It does not amount to "self salvation" or you trying to be "in control" if you simply respond. Thanks for the illustrations from Knollys and Keach as I was unaware of those examples. Bunyan though I was familiar with.

As a side note, it's also interesting that if you look up Martyn Lloyd-Jones sermon on Revelation 3:20 he says it should never be used evangelistically. But right before that statement he was quoting Wesley so I don't think that is much comfort to the extreme Calvinists on here.

"Sense Jesus knocking..."
Dave, where do you get your theology from? Is it from the Bible or from the vast number of secondary sources you seem to read, above the Bible?
Here you are implying that the work of God comes in an emotion that you, the recipient of the emotion, must respond to if Jesus is going to "enter" the door.

It would be refreshing if you spent your time talking about God's word.