Being a Calvinist is Good?

[npetreley]

Mel., as my opening post indicates, if you are not a 5-point Calvinist, then why call yourself a Calvinist? However, it appears people will continue to consider themselves either a Calvinist or an Arminian. The points, as the 5-point Calvinists define them, are all tied togther.

The same applies to anyone who calls him/herself an Arminian. In fact, while I think there are many 5-point Calvinists on this board, I don't think there is a single Arminian here. When people defend free-willism, they do so in ways that contradict even the most basic tenets of Arminianism, such as total depravity (yes, that's part of Arminianism, even if it's not called "total depravity"). I don't know anyone who calls him/herself an Arminian here, but if they do, they probably shouldn't.

 

[webdog]

I agree. The crux of the issue is monergism vs. synergism. That is why I consider a 4-pointer a "Calvinist" in a loose sense of the term (despite Webdog's meaningless objections to the contrary). A 4-pointer is still a monergist and is a long way from Arminianism/synergism. And that is why most 4-pointers still consider themselves Calvinists. I can't speak for 1-3 pointers. However, though we often equate "Calvinism" with TULIP, Calvin himself wrote and preached a great deal on Scripture. His writings (beyond anything concerning TULIP) continue to have a huge influence on Evangelical theology. Thus, I think some more astute historians of theology feel more comfortable with the term "Calvinism" even though they may be less than 4 pointers.

News flash: You don't have to hold to a certain amount of "points" to be a monergist. God's grace is not graded on a curve or some stupid "point system". All five points stand or fall regardless.

 

[Andy T.]

News flash: You don't have to hold to a certain amount of "points" to be a monergist. God's grace is not graded on a curve or some stupid "point system". All five points stand or fall regardless.

A monergist opposes the thought that man cooperates in his salvation. Such is a synergist. Anyone who believes that faith causes regeneration is a synergist by definition. So a monergist, by defintion, is one who holds to the I in TULIP. If they hold to the I, then they most likely hold to T, U and P and maybe L.

I do not see any logical inconsistency with a 4-point system (i.e., one rejecting the L). Of course, that has been debated here before, and is not really the point of this thread.

 

[PeterM]

Why does any man desire to be pigeon holed or identified by another man's name?

 

[Andy T.]

Why does any man desire to be pigeon holed or identified by another man's name?

I don't desire it, but the term "Calvinism" is generally understood short-hand to describe one's beliefs on salvation. I prefer using the term Doctrines of Grace.

 

[drfuss]

I don't desire it, but the term "Calvinism" is generally understood short-hand to describe one's beliefs on salvation. I prefer using the term Doctrines of Grace.

Are you suggesting Arminians don't believe in grace? Of course they do.

Doctrines of Grace? IMO, having various doctrines of grace is just as open ended in defining beliefs as Calvinism and Arminianism.

 

[reformedbeliever]

Are you suggesting Arminians don't believe in grace? Of course they do.

Doctrines of Grace? IMO, having various doctrines of grace is just as open ended in defining beliefs as Calvinism and Arminianism.

Not speaking for my brother, but i'm sure he does not intend to say that at all. I didn't even see where he said that.
I also would have thought he meant doctrines of sovereign grace. Grace and peace

 

[saturneptune]

Yes, both should...too bad some "calvinists" think they are special and better than the non elect.
And of course some on the other side think that they a better than others for choosing..but it SHOULD be something we all agree with...I sure do!

Thank you for your agreement. It will be duly noted.

 

[Ransom]

PeterM asked:

Why does any man desire to be pigeon holed or identified by another man's name?

You mean, like Christian? Or better yet, Peter?

 

[Blammo]

PeterM asked:

Why does any man desire to be pigeon holed or identified by another man's name?

You mean, like Christian? Or better yet, Peter?

I really hate when people do that.

Christ-Christian is on par with Calvin-Calvinist????????

 

[PeterM]

PeterM asked:

Why does any man desire to be pigeon holed or identified by another man's name?

You mean, like Christian? Or better yet, Peter?

For your sake I will only state that my theology/doctrinal positions are biblical and not plagiarized from another man’s beliefs (Not including Christ or those of apostolic position/authority)

This must truly be a Baptist board as there are some real touchy folks here…

 

[Andy T.]

Are you suggesting Arminians don't believe in grace? Of course they do.

Doctrines of Grace? IMO, having various doctrines of grace is just as open ended in defining beliefs as Calvinism and Arminianism.

The term "Doctrines of Grace" has been around for ages. I'm not sure who first coined it, but it is essentially TULIP with out the 'evil-guy' Calvin attached to it.

No, I'm not suggesting that Arminians don't believe in grace. However, the grace they believe in is different than the grace taught in Calvinism. So in that sense, it's not the same "grace".

 

[Andy T.]

For your sake I will only state that my theology/doctrinal positions are biblical and not plagiarized from another man’s beliefs (Not including Christ or those of apostolic position/authority)

This must truly be a Baptist board as there are some real touchy folks here…

PeterM, are you saying that you never once benefitted from a teacher or preacher who instructed you in the Word? Are you that much of a spiritual island that no one has taught you? Then you must be God's Superman, because I know of no one who does not learn from godly teachers and preachers in their Christian walk.

 

[Brother Bob]

No, I'm not suggesting that Arminians don't believe in grace. However, the grace they believe in is different than the grace taught in Calvinism. So in that sense, it's not the same "grace".

No it is not a different GRACE! It is the same Grace for there is but one. It is just that we believe what the Scripture says "through faith" we receive that GRACE. We and I am not Arminiam but Old Regular, but we believe that we must be led by the Spirit, same as you in order to be saved. Its just we believe that same Spirit strives with all men to follow Him to Grace but some reject it and some accept it.

In other words "you must believe".

 

[Andy T.]

No it is not a different GRACE! It is the same Grace for there is but one. It is just that we believe what the Scripture says "through faith" we receive that GRACE.
In other words "you must believe".

I believe that too, Bob. Salvation is by grace through faith. But don't play dumb, you know that our views on grace are different.

 

[Brother Bob]

I believe that too, Bob. Salvation is by grace through faith. But don't play dumb, you know that our views on grace are different.

No Andy, our veiws on Grace is not different but how we receive that Grace is what is different. Now is that playing dumb, don't think so but one of us is wrong.

 

[Andy T.]

No Andy, our veiws on Grace is not different but how we receive that Grace is what is different. Now is that playing dumb, don't think so but one of us is wrong.

Of course. When I said "our views on grace are different" - to be more precise, I meant in how God imparts that grace. And how God imparts that grace, goes to the very definition of grace, which is why we differ in "our views on grace". The Calvinist says that saving grace is imparted to the elect in an effectual manner. The Arminian says that saving grace is imparted to those who elect themselves unto salvation by their own choice.

 

[Ransom]

Blammo:

Christ-Christian is on par with Calvin-Calvinist????????

*sigh* They're both names. That was the point.

 

[Ransom]

PeterM said:

This must truly be a Baptist board as there are some real touchy folks here…

Yeah, we can tell.

(You did notice the happy face when I posted, right?)

 

[PeterM]

:saint:

PeterM said:

This must truly be a Baptist board as there are some real touchy folks here…

Yeah, we can tell.

(You did notice the happy face when I posted, right?)

Sorry forgot my smiley...:smilewinkgrin::saint: