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Being helpful - is there hidden reason?

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
Reading "Ask Amy"

DEAR AMY: I have lived my life trying to help people.
I have “gone to the rescue” many times to help people who were needy or suicidal or addicted and in need of therapy or treatment. And it does make me happy when I think I have been able to help someone.

Recently one of my children told me that since I derive happiness from helping others, that I am really selfish and that my actions are no more laudable than other people who pursue happiness through other selfish means.
The idea shocked me.
What do you think?

– Shocked Mom



DEAR SHOCKED: “Selfish” is probably the most pejorative word to describe your tendency to rescue people, but your child is obviously trying to make a point.
You are behaving in a way that satisfies your own needs, but on the selfish-scale I’d put your behavior way ahead of, say, someone who ignores the desperate cries of others.
Those who need rescuing are no doubt grateful for your so-called selfishness, but a true “rescuer” derives her sense of self through rescuing others.

The point being that this identity might prevent you from relating to people who don’t have Big Problems, and you might neglect some people in your life (this child, for instance) who would love to have your full attention without having to be in crisis in order to get it.

Selfish? No. Self-serving? Perhaps. And do your many rescues require additional positive attention? Do you enjoy being “lauded” for your actions? That’s your ego’s role in keeping the cycle going.

When one of your children lobs a little bomb like this over the fence, the challenging and more mature reaction is to see it as an opportunity to hear them out. And so you might respond: “Hmm, that’s pretty shocking. I don’t see myself as selfish, but it sounds like you’re trying to tell me about how my tendency to help other people affects you. Maybe you can rescue me from this uncertainty by expanding on your thoughts.”
***
 

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What I would say since your make up is helping others get involved in an organization where they do... Don't be a lone wolf... There are others helping others and maybe you can volunteer and help them... Your traits are admirable but they are hidden just in you... So who are you helping?... Brother Glen:)
 
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RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
“Amy” makes a good point. Thinking about this, I’m reminded of pastors who regretted their neglect of their own families due to concentrating so much on the needs of “their flock.”

The wrong kind of selfless is a serious mistake, regardless. A “company man,” or one who builds his own, may claim to be doing it for his family, but the reality may be quite the opposite.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
Reading "Ask Amy"

DEAR AMY: I have lived my life trying to help people.
I have “gone to the rescue” many times to help people who were needy or suicidal or addicted and in need of therapy or treatment. And it does make me happy when I think I have been able to help someone.

Recently one of my children told me that since I derive happiness from helping others, that I am really selfish and that my actions are no more laudable than other people who pursue happiness through other selfish means.
The idea shocked me.
What do you think?

– Shocked Mom



DEAR SHOCKED: “Selfish” is probably the most pejorative word to describe your tendency to rescue people, but your child is obviously trying to make a point.
You are behaving in a way that satisfies your own needs, but on the selfish-scale I’d put your behavior way ahead of, say, someone who ignores the desperate cries of others.
Those who need rescuing are no doubt grateful for your so-called selfishness, but a true “rescuer” derives her sense of self through rescuing others.

The point being that this identity might prevent you from relating to people who don’t have Big Problems, and you might neglect some people in your life (this child, for instance) who would love to have your full attention without having to be in crisis in order to get it.

Selfish? No. Self-serving? Perhaps. And do your many rescues require additional positive attention? Do you enjoy being “lauded” for your actions? That’s your ego’s role in keeping the cycle going.

When one of your children lobs a little bomb like this over the fence, the challenging and more mature reaction is to see it as an opportunity to hear them out. And so you might respond: “Hmm, that’s pretty shocking. I don’t see myself as selfish, but it sounds like you’re trying to tell me about how my tendency to help other people affects you. Maybe you can rescue me from this uncertainty by expanding on your thoughts.”
***

When we are motivated by Love, we are motivated by God, Love stirs us to act. When each neighbour’s suffering and plight becomes our own suffering and plight, we truly Love our neighbour as ourself, and in that unitive Love of God we are also Loving God.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
When we are motivated by Love, we are motivated by God, Love stirs us to act. When each neighbour’s suffering and plight becomes our own suffering and plight, we truly Love our neighbour as ourself, and in that unitive Love of God we are also Loving God.

That might look like it is from the outside
BUT what is the real motivation!
Often there is a hidden reason (or excuse)
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
That might look like it is from the outside
BUT what is the real motivation!
Often there is a hidden reason (or excuse)

Love like Faith compels. Look at how Jeremiah tried to restrain his Faith.

7 You seduced me, Lord, and I was seduced;
you overpowered me and prevailed.
I am ridiculed all day long;
everyone mocks me.
8 Whenever I speak, I cry out
proclaiming violence and destruction.
So the word of the Lord has brought me
insult and reproach all day long.
9 But if I say, “I will not mention his word
or speak anymore in his name,”
his word is in my heart like a fire,
a fire shut up in my bones.
I am weary of holding it in;
indeed, I cannot.

If Faith can not be restrained but must be expressed and proclaimed, then it is even truer of Love which is greater than Faith.
Love must be expressed. When we are filled by Jesus Love we suffer because of that love, and that suffering increases till Love finally crucifies us.
Love is sweet to the taste but bitterness in our bodies, it is bitter to self, tortures and sacrifices self.

Beyond a parent holding a suffering dying child, is Jesus Love, far beyond all human understanding, and each and every soul He Loves like that. That is why His Passion was so bitter, because His Love is so Great.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
I am NOT saying that helping is always for selfish reasons
But it can be -
and it is NOT what people say about it-
Rather - it is what they DO NOT say....
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
“If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.”

We must fill up on Love daily, otherwise we have nothing to give. We are poor in Love.
Ask Jesus to supply His Love in and through you.

Then begin Loving in your home, make others requests of you, Jesus requests of you, because what you do for the these you do for Jesus.

Every small thing done in Love has enormous value to God, because it is His action in the world.

Love and it’s effects expand and takes more and more ground, it becomes a refuge for a menagerie of creatures.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
“If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.”

Love is not self seeking, it has no other motive than the good of the object of its attention.

That is why the impulse of Love is Jesus Himself rising and doing in and through us.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
I see the point. If someone is doing the right thing, but has the wrong motivation, they are sinning.

However, I see no problem with taking pleasure in helping others. We are suppose to feel good about doing good.

peace to you
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
“If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.”

Love is not self seeking, it has no other motive than the good of the object of its attention.

That is why the impulse of Love is Jesus Himself rising and doing in and through us.
What you are saying is generally correct. But the context of the thread is a child (age?) telling his mom his perception of her actions.

"Amy" makes a very good point in saying that, because the perception seems so odd, there may be higher priority obligations of love being neglected.

Love has some serious priorities.

“Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers, (Galatians 6:10).”

“But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith and is worse than an infidel, (1 Timothy 5:8).”
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Love like Faith compels

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he was moved with compassion,
34 and came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on them oil and wine; and he set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. Lu 19
 

Piper

Active Member
Site Supporter
Reading "Ask Amy"

DEAR AMY: I have lived my life trying to help people.
I have “gone to the rescue” many times to help people who were needy or suicidal or addicted and in need of therapy or treatment. And it does make me happy when I think I have been able to help someone.

Recently one of my children told me that since I derive happiness from helping others, that I am really selfish and that my actions are no more laudable than other people who pursue happiness through other selfish means.
The idea shocked me.
What do you think?

– Shocked Mom



DEAR SHOCKED: “Selfish” is probably the most pejorative word to describe your tendency to rescue people, but your child is obviously trying to make a point.
You are behaving in a way that satisfies your own needs, but on the selfish-scale I’d put your behavior way ahead of, say, someone who ignores the desperate cries of others.
Those who need rescuing are no doubt grateful for your so-called selfishness, but a true “rescuer” derives her sense of self through rescuing others.

The point being that this identity might prevent you from relating to people who don’t have Big Problems, and you might neglect some people in your life (this child, for instance) who would love to have your full attention without having to be in crisis in order to get it.

Selfish? No. Self-serving? Perhaps. And do your many rescues require additional positive attention? Do you enjoy being “lauded” for your actions? That’s your ego’s role in keeping the cycle going.

When one of your children lobs a little bomb like this over the fence, the challenging and more mature reaction is to see it as an opportunity to hear them out. And so you might respond: “Hmm, that’s pretty shocking. I don’t see myself as selfish, but it sounds like you’re trying to tell me about how my tendency to help other people affects you. Maybe you can rescue me from this uncertainty by expanding on your thoughts.”
***
My mother in law is like this. Sometimes I think it is from 2 flawed motives, one is that everyone needs my help, because I know so much more and can do so much more. (These types tend to reject help form anyone i.e. my mother in law). Second is the motive of praise for my great self sacrifice. That is selfish and I think the greatest motive that drives people.

However, Jesus was the one who could rescue us and did. And he gave us his Spirit, so Christians can overcome those sinful self serving motives, to some extent. So, not everyone who rescues someone is self serving, but someone who thinks they always need to rescue people, definitely have something wrong.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he was moved with compassion,
34 and came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on them oil and wine; and he set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. Lu 19

After handover to Jesus each morning which is complete disposal to Jesus will, and you handover over your human will, you get moved as He directs.
Jesus has full power of attorney.
“ It is no longer I that lives, but Christ who lives in me “

Without your will being in charge, you can not generate a motivation of your own, but are motivated by Him.

You are first shown clearly, the primary duties for your state in life. You will start to carry these out as He wants them carried out, in thousands of small ways.

And as we progress faithfully in this state, as on training wheels until Jesus starts to fully express Himself more and more and His work will expand from just primary duties, to the bringing of the Kingdom on Earth as it is in Heaven.

People say, ‘ I tried it for a whole week and nothing happened ‘, it will happen, just be faithful in handing over your human will, and asking for His Will to fully Reign in you each day. Rarely is training dramatic with the Lord.
We can only ask, and dispose ourselves, and it is only Jesus that can do this in us and through us. And He will.

At handover we place ourselves on Jesus workbench first thing in the morning, we wait on the Lord until He should take us up and use us for His purpose.
We don’t have a will of our own, we have handed it over, we are disposed to only to doing His Holy Will.
This is total commitment. Not Harry Half Measure, Total.

We must be an apprentice that shows up faithfully each morning, not with his own ideas, but attentive to the direction of the master tradesman.
In time the apprentice develops the eye and ear and hand of the master until one day he has the mind of his master.

Handover prayer from your heart.

Lord Jesus, I do not know how to live my life, I ask you live my life to the full. I hand over my human will and ask that your Holy Will Reigns in me throughout this day. Lord Jesus, You takeover. Not my will be done, but yours.

Then say the Lord’s Prayer.

Then carry out your primary duties with this disposition and imperceptibly at first, things will begin to change more and more. Soon you will see glimpses of the Lord doing in your doings, His way.

Jesus is the Way, and His Way is His Will.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
My mother in law is like this. Sometimes I think it is from 2 flawed motives, one is that everyone needs my help, because I know so much more and can do so much more. (These types tend to reject help form anyone i.e. my mother in law). Second is the motive of praise for my great self sacrifice. That is selfish and I think the greatest motive that drives people.

However, Jesus was the one who could rescue us and did. And he gave us his Spirit, so Christians can overcome those sinful self serving motives, to some extent. So, not everyone who rescues someone is self serving, but someone who thinks they always need to rescue people, definitely have something wrong.

Jesus overcomes, we bypass our condition by handing over our will, and appropriating His Will.

The fallen human will causes sin, vices, suffering, pain and strife. It’s a deadly, dangerous thing.

We can do nothing to help, we only make things worse. It is the fallen human will that produced this fallen world.

Many believers are still operating by force of their own will, still inflicting damage on themselves and others.

When we hand over our will each morning and ask Jesus Holy Will to Reign in us and through us, Jesus lives our life.

“ It is no longer I that lives, but Christ who lives in me. “

As painful as it can be detaching from our human will, it is a massive relief once we rid ourselves of it, and put it joyfully in the Lord’s hands.

Then His Will operates, His Peace and His Order.

“Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us.”

Jesus then does.

Huge difference between us doing and Jesus doing.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
In this state and disposition living only in Jesus Holy Will, your presence alone will radiate out Jesus and bring healing, peace and blessings.

Dispose yourself completely to Jesus Will in trust, then let Jesus take over.

“People brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peter’s shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by. Crowds gathered also from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing their sick and those tormented by evil spirits, and all of them were healed.”
 
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Cathode

Well-Known Member
At the heart of self is the fallen human will, from this comes out of a man darkness, sin, evil thoughts, vices, wrongful motivations and disorder and every corruption.

Go to the heart of the problem, and bypass that problem by handing over/ surrendering your human will and volition to Jesus.

Ask humbly in Hope, Hope is burning desire, to be rid of your human will, and to receive Jesus Holy Will, and live in it.

“ Be perfect as your Heavenly Father, is Perfect “

Can the human will achieve that? No.

Only God’s Will Reigning in you can achieve that.

Once fully governed by God’s Holy Will, there is no sin, darkness, violence and strife, all these are the effects of the human will, snatched independently by Adam.

The Father’s Will is Perfect, and His Kingdom will come when His Will is done on Earth as it is in Heaven, that is Perfectly as it is done in Heaven.

Be singular in this one desire, that The Father's Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven, this is the Great Desire The Lord Himself expressed in the prayer He gave us. A Prayer we have said daily for 2000 years.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
UPDATE ON THE ADVICE:
Today in the paper, Amy published a letter from "Shocked by YOU" which stated in part "I cannot believe that you blamed this mom for being a kind and generous person. We need more people like her in this world!"

Amys response:
Dear Shocked: You're right, but because this helping behavior seemed to interfere with her relationship, I urged "Shocked Mom" to explore here deeper motivations and the possible negative consequences of her behavior.
 

Cathode

Well-Known Member
“Amy” makes a good point. Thinking about this, I’m reminded of pastors who regretted their neglect of their own families due to concentrating so much on the needs of “their flock.”

The wrong kind of selfless is a serious mistake, regardless. A “company man,” or one who builds his own, may claim to be doing it for his family, but the reality may be quite the opposite.

“I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs--how he can please the Lord.
33
But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world--how he can please his wife--
34
and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world--how she can please her husband.
35
I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.“


The best way to work in service of the Lord, is to sacrifice family and have total dedication to The Lord’s work.
 
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