Being lost

[JesusFan]

You might not have been, but I was. You made the point about man's condition due to Adams action and I was making the point that Christ changed everything with his action, thus the need to point to this phrase as well.


I didn't take issue with that, remember, I said we are lost due to our sin nature. I just went on to say that we are condemned in the end due to our unbelief, not our breaking of the law. The law and its curse has been fulfilled and dissolved once and for all.

Death of Christ changed everything for those who will become saved by His death though...
the elect of God , wether directly caused by His Will, or by His foreknowledge, they are those whose curse under the law was broken by the Cross, as their sins have been nailed to the Cross...

All those in Christ have what you stated here, all those still in Adam are still under the Curse of the fall, have their original Sin/sin natures/depravity etc so they are still under it!

 

[Skandelon]

Jesus said, "I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day." (Jn 12)

What condemns them at the last day?

 

[Skandelon]

Heb 3:19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief!

Why won't they be able to enter?

 

[Skandelon]

2 Thess 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

Why do they perish?

 

[freeatlast]

You might not have been, but I was. You made the point about man's condition due to Adams action and I was making the point that Christ changed everything with his action, thus the need to point to this phrase as well.


I didn't take issue with that, remember, I said we are lost due to our sin nature. I just went on to say that we are condemned in the end due to our unbelief, not our breaking of the law. The law and its curse has been fulfilled and dissolved once and for all.

I understand what you are saying, but according to scripture you are wrong. Being lost and condemned are the same. We are lost, condemned, not because of unbelief, but because of what Adam did. It is a birth condition.
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation;

 

[revmwc]

I understand what you are saying, but according to scripture you are wrong. Being lost and condemned are the same. We are lost, condemned, not because of unbelief, but because of what Adam did. It is a birth condition.
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation;

Man is condemned but again since Christ is the Propitiation for all mans sin. Propitiation = Satisfaction God is satisfied with the price paid. This is God the Father satisfied with the Perfect Persons. Perfect payment for our sins on the cross. The greek "hillasterion" actually means mecy seat so Christ is our mercy seat. Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Notice as the propition He brought remission of sin whose sin, the sins of all.


John reiterates and taakes it further he tells us whose sin were propitiated.
1 John 2 :1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ death paid in full the sin debt of all mankind. He satisfied God's requirement of death for sin. So now what sends someone to hell what condemns them?

John 3:



17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

They are condemend because of unbelief, not because of sin the payement for that has been propitiated by Christ.

Romans 10:13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Call on Him for salvation is the message. Believe He is your propitiation and call upon Him to save you.

 

[freeatlast]

Man is condemned but again since Christ is the Propitiation for all mans sin. Propitiation = Satisfaction God is satisfied with the price paid. This is God the Father satisfied with the Perfect Persons. Perfect payment for our sins on the cross. The greek "hillasterion" actually means mecy seat so Christ is our mercy seat. Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Notice as the propition He brought remission of sin whose sin, the sins of all.


John reiterates and taakes it further he tells us whose sin were propitiated.
1 John 2 :1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ death paid in full the sin debt of all mankind. He satisfied God's requirement of death for sin. So now what sends someone to hell what condemns them?

John 3:



17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

They are condemend because of unbelief, not because of sin the payement for that has been propitiated by Christ.

Romans 10:13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Call on Him for salvation is the message. Believe He is your propitiation and call upon Him to save you.

Your statements are correct, but your understanding is not. While sin has been paid for the payment is not applied unless one is in Christ. As long as the person remains in his birth state they remain under the curse. Thus the reason for the new birth. believing is what sets them free from the condemnation they are born with but unbelief is not what condemns them. They are condemned not because of unbelief but because of birth. Unbelief only keeps them under that condemnation.

 

[Skandelon]

I understand what you are saying, but according to scripture you are wrong. Being lost and condemned are the same. We are lost, condemned, not because of unbelief, but because of what Adam did.

Did you not see all the texts I just listed saying that men are condemned or perish for unbelief or rejection of the truth?

We are all born lost but we are not all condemned to hell. The difference in those in heaven and those in hell is not their sin, its their belief or lack thereof.

 

[revmwc]

Your statements are correct, but your understanding is not. While sin has been paid for the payment is not applied unless one is in Christ. As long as the person remains in his birth state they remain under the curse. Thus the reason for the new birth. believing is what sets them free from the condemnation they are born with but unbelief is not what condemns them. They are condemned not because of unbelief but because of birth. Unbelief only keeps them under that condemnation.

Jesus said they were condemned because of unbelief.

John 3:

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Iconoclast]

True!

Think BOTh Cals/Arms find something now we can agree on !
By What IF a person never had the "clearly revealed" truth presented to him/her...

Would they still be lost in their sins before God?

Not so fast...unbelief is a sin.....people will be in hell for any sin not covered by Jesus blood.

Not just for unbelief.....Jesus did not just die for sin in general...He took specific sins of specific people, upon himself. An exact number of sins.

 

[percho]

Lost?

The day Adam ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil he earned the wages for every man who would come after him.

and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'
Everyone born of the flesh after this was born in trespass and sin.
And as it is appointed unto men once, to die, but after this the judgment:
For the wages of sin death;

The destiny of man unless God intervenes.

But for some reason before Adam was created maybe even before it was uttered "Let there be light" the Lamb was slain and also in about this same time frame God, who cannot lie, made a promise of the hope of eternal life.

Why is man lost? Plan maybe?

Someone else will have to pick it up from there.

 

[freeatlast]

Not so fast...unbelief is a sin.....people will be in hell for any sin not covered by Jesus blood.

Not just for unbelief.....Jesus did not just die for sin in general...He took specific sins of specific people, upon himself. An exact number of sins.

Not according to John.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Notice "sin" is singular.