Being slain in the Spirit?

[Pete]

Originally posted by Bible-boy (responding to Ray):

You previously agreed that eisegesis is an unacceptable hermeneutical approach that leads to improper exposition and flawed interpretation of biblical texts. However, when the tried and true hermeneutical method of exegesis results in a conflict with your predetermined belief system you chuck it out the window (so to speak) so that you can maintain and embrace your presupposition regarding this issue. Your stated belief in the principles of hermeneutics and the practical working out of your Theological position on this issue do not agree. You have given intellectual assent to the principles of sound hermeneutics and solid exegesis. However, when they result in a conflict with your presupposition on this issue you embrace eisegesis. This is a violation of the Law of Non-contradiction (to which you also previously agreed), and as such makes your entire line of argumentation here invalid.

I've never been a fan of big quotes and small replies, but all I can say here is "As above

"

 

[atestring]

I have never been slain in the Spirit.
If this happens So Be it!
IF THIS HAS HAPPENED TO YOU . THAT IS BETWEEN YOU AND GOD!
WOULD IT HARM ME IF YOU GET SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT????
IF I EVER GET SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT WILL IT HARM YOU????
BTW
Is ther any scripture that forbids being slain in The Spirit?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by atestring:
I have never been slain in the Spirit.
If this happens So Be it!
IF THIS HAS HAPPENED TO YOU . THAT IS BETWEEN YOU AND GOD!
WOULD IT HARM ME IF YOU GET SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT????
IF I EVER GET SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT WILL IT HARM YOU????
BTW
Is ther any scripture that forbids being slain in The Spirit?

Slain in the "Spirit" is not of the "Holy Spirit."
Thus if being "slain in the spirit" is of another spirit, which I believe it is in many cases, then yes, definitely, it will do you great harm.
DHK

 

[Ray Berrian]

DHK,

If you mean what you said above, DHK, then it must be the truth directly from the Lord. Do you speak ex cathedra? And if you do from what denominational chair?

 

[Bible-boy]

Would someone please offer up some Scripture, without eisegesis, to support the idea of being slian in the Spirit? Otherwise, I would expect that we can agree that the idea is a false doctrine and should not be embraced.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Someone emailed me from another state and I will tell you that he or said he or she is a Baptist and has the 'gift of tongues' and his or her ministry is to be a soul winner and has won many sinners to the Lord.

He said he or she understood you men and your resistance to the truth. I not reveal if he or she is my friend or whether or not he or she is on this Baptist Board.

But, rest assured that I am telling you the truth. Now either you trust my credibility as a man of God or you will say I am making this up. Your choice!

Although I never spoke in 'tongues' I hate to hear people twist the Scripture in making up their own idea of truth. But, I must admit that I like the Apostle John, and Paul the apostle and millions of other Christians have been 'slain in the Spirit.'

And the discussion goes on.

Ray

 

[Bible-boy]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Someone emailed me from another state and I will tell you that he or said he or she is a Baptist and has the 'gift of tongues' and his or her ministry is to be a soul winner and has won many sinners to the Lord.

He said he or she understood you men and your resistance to the truth. I not reveal if he or she is my friend or whether or not he or she is on this Baptist Board.

But, rest assured that I am telling you the truth. Now either you trust my credibility as a man of God or you will say I am making this up. Your choice!

Although I never spoke in 'tongues' I hate to hear people twist the Scripture in making up their own idea of truth. But, I must admit that I like the Apostle John, and Paul the apostle and millions of other Christians have been 'slain in the Spirit.'

And the discussion goes on.

Ray

Hello Ray,

None of the above speaking in tongues stuff has anything whatsoever to do this thread on being slain in the Spirit. Please get on topic and stay on topic.

Likewise, you claim that John and Paul were "slain in the Spirit." However, we have shown conclusively that in order for you to make that claim you have to resort to eisegesis of the text.

You agreed that eisegesis was an unacceptable hermeneutical method and that it leads to improper exposition and flawed biblical interpretation. However, when the tried and true hermeneutical method of exegesis results in a conflict with your predetermined belief system you chuck it (exegesis) out the window so that you can maintain and embrace your presupposition regarding this issue.

Your stated belief in the principles of hermeneutics and the practical working out of your Theological position on this issue do not agree. You have given intellectual assent to the principles of sound hermeneutics and solid exegesis. However, when they result in a conflict with your presupposition on this issue you embrace eisegesis. This is a violation of the Law of Non-contradiction (to which you also previously agreed), and as such makes your entire line of argumentation here invalid.

So please either provide Scripture that supports your position, without depending on eisegesis, or acknowledge that it is a false doctrine that should not be embraced.

[ February 08, 2006, 04:15 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
DHK,

If you mean what you said above, DHK, then it must be the truth directly from the Lord. Do you speak ex cathedra? And if you do from what denominational chair?

I speak from the authority of the Word of God, my final authority in all matters of faith and practice.
I will list for you every single Scripture that deals with being "slain in the spirit." Here they are. Get ready:

ZERO

I can't find the expression anywhere in my concordance (Strong's), or on-line, or in the Greek New Testament, or in the Hebrew Old Testament. It is just not there. There is not a single verse in the Bible that has slain in the spirit in it. It is no where to be found. My authority is God himself. His revelation to mankind is the Bible. I tell you Ray this sometimes "demonic" experience is not of God, is not in the Bible, is a man-made psycological experience most of the time and some of the time a demon-inspired experience. For one to equate it to an experience from the Holy Spirit is borderline blasphemy. That is where the blasphemy would lie. Not the other way around.
DHK

 

[Bible-boy]

Originally posted by atestring:
I have never been slain in the Spirit.
If this happens So Be it!

Hello atestring,

The above quote is wrong-headed thinking. The first thing you have to do is determine conclusively according to the objective truth of the Word if such a thing happens at all. You can't just assume that it does and that it is from God. What proof does the Bible offer that such a thing happens?

Originally posted by atestring:
IF THIS HAS HAPPENED TO YOU . THAT IS BETWEEN YOU AND GOD!

I don't know if you know this or not, so...

First, the protocol on Internet message boards and chat rooms is that if you type in all caps it means that you are yelling. So please don't yell at us.

Second, Like I said above before we just assume that it happens and that when/if it does it is from God we need to determine if the Bible teaches that it happens at all.

Originally posted by atestring:
WOULD IT HARM ME IF YOU GET SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT????

See DHK's post above. Yes, it could if what happened to me was not of God and I come along and teach you a false doctrine based solely on my subjective personal experience and you do not have enough wisdom to check my false teaching against the objective truth of the Scriptures.

Originally posted by atestring:
IF I EVER GET SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT WILL IT HARM YOU????

Yes, if it is not from God and you come around teaching a false doctrine based solely on your subjective personal experience.

Originally posted by atestring:
BTW
Is ther any scripture that forbids being slain in The Spirit?

The better and more important question for you to be asking is, "Does the Scripture teach us that there is such a thing as being slain in the Spirit?"

 

[Ray Berrian]

DHK,

I do not question your sincerity; but you are sincerely wrong. There are at least four verses that speak of N.T. people falling under the mighty power of the Holy Spirit. You have read them before out of Acts and in Revelation chapter one.

I suggest that when you disbelieve in being 'slain in the Spirit' you also discontinue the concept of the Trinity of the Godhead. The theological word for Trinity is not in Strong's Concordance either.

If Pentecostal Churches were demonic-- the people sure would not be sitting in church praising God in hymns to Him, prayer to Him, and reading from the Bible with a pastor explaining the truths of the Word of God, and praying to the Lord God.

Like I said, you are under no other spiritual leadership to keep your foolish errors in check. As long as you can blame the Bible for saying certain things, you feel that it is always from God. Many who think differently from your view are under demonic influence or control. I'll bet you have your congregation really under your thumb. So much for protecting the sheep of your flock.

Your concept of some other Christian denominations is a little like the preacher who said, 'I'm saved, my wife is saved and my kids are saved, we four and no more.'

As to you, me and Rev. Hinn we are alive because of the mercy of the Lord, but this does not mean that each of us will not be evaluated and rewarded on how true we were in teaching the Word of God.

.

You said, 'Yes, my church practices James 5:14-16; we anointed someone with oil just this last Sunday evening. And when the person reports that he's been healed, there is not a single person in our church that will say the pastor or any of the other men who prayed over the fellow had anything to do with it. God will be given all the glory.

And for those that didn't catch it, I'm now awake and getting ready to go to work. Still no headache, no blindness, and I'm moving under my own power.

A quick scan of news headlines doesn't show anything untoward going on with Mr. Hinn, either.'

 

[tamborine lady]

The words "slain in the spirit " was something man made up to explain something happening to them like what you read in the following scripture.

Rev 1-17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

It still happens today. People are still overcome by the awesome Spirit of God. But don't look for the phrase "slain in the Spirit", because it is not in the bible.

Peace,

Tam

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
He said he or she understood you men and your resistance to the truth.

I love it!

Thank you for your understanding he or she. I doubt I will ever understand Ray's resistance to the truth, quasi-Gnosticism and Scripture twisting on this topic. If you have any insights let us know.

By Ray:

I not reveal if he or she is my friend or whether or not he or she is on this Baptist Board.

Wellllllll, he or she is free to join the BB if he or she wishes, or jump in on the topic if he or she is already here, then maybe he or she will refute the proof given against your attempts at supporting the practice by Scripture twisting here...

Perhaps he or she would answer those questions you keep hiding from on the Acts 9 passage. Why would Jesus ask Saul why is he persecuting Him? Had Saul started to backslide again already? Why would Saul ask who the Lord was if he knew Him at that stage? Why didn't Saul say like Thomas "My Lord and my God!"? As this was a persecutor of the Church being given a wake up call by the Head of the Church he was persecuting, how does this relate to the "slain in the spirit" practice of today?

Come on in he or she if your busy schedule permits.

By Ray:

Although I never spoke in 'tongues' I hate to hear people twist the Scripture in making up their own idea of truth.

This isn't the tongues thread....but anyway....

QUICK!! SOMEONE HAND RAY A MIRROR!!

Sorry for shouting

But "I hate to hear people twist the Scripture in making up their own idea of truth." GIMME A BREAK!

Ray, you have done nothing but twist Scripture to make it match your experience.

By Ray:
But, I must admit that I like the Apostle John, and Paul the apostle and millions of other Christians have been 'slain in the Spirit.'

You were "slain" like John? Great! Where is your book of the Bible? You were slain like Saul? Great! You weren't a Christian when you fell and the Lord gave you a wake up call?

By Ray (I think, he gets weird with the quote button now and then):

I do not question your sincerity; but you are sincerely wrong. There are at least four verses that speak of N.T. people falling under the mighty power of the Holy Spirit. You have read them before out of Acts and in Revelation chapter one.

I do not question your sincerity; but you are sincerely wrong on this topic. There are at least four verses that speak of N.T. people falling under the mighty power of the Holy Spirit that you twist to try to support your experience. None of them do.

By Bible-boy:
Would someone please offer up some Scripture, without eisegesis, to support the idea of being slian in the Spirit?

I doubt we will be seeing that any time soon...(without eisegesis anyway)

By B-b:
Otherwise, I would expect that we can agree that the idea is a false doctrine and should not be embraced.

I doubt those here Scripture-twisting will do that either

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
DHK,

I do not question your sincerity; but you are sincerely wrong. There are at least four verses that speak of N.T. people falling under the mighty power of the Holy Spirit. You have read them before out of Acts and in Revelation chapter one.

On this particular subject I am not wrong. I am not wrong for this basic reson--the Bible is my foundation, not experience. You are wrong for this reason--there are no verses that speak of any person being slain in the spirit, and you have failed to demonstrate that. There are people that pray. I pray too. I pray sometimes in a prostrate position, just as the the ones in the examples that you give. So what? That has nothing to do with the "harum-scar'um" carnal show of the flesh falling-down backwards, chaotic, so-called being slain of the spirits.
God demands order not chaos. He demands reverential respect, not outlandish foolishness. He demands worship that is Biblically based; not occult-based.

I suggest that when you disbelieve in being 'slain in the Spirit' you also discontinue the concept of the Trinity of the Godhead. The theological word for Trinity is not in Strong's Concordance either.

The trinity is taught in the Bible. Slain in the spirit is not: not in concept, not in word.

If Pentecostal Churches were demonic-- the people sure would not be sitting in church praising God in hymns to Him, prayer to Him, and reading from the Bible with a pastor explaining the truths of the Word of God, and praying to the Lord God.

More misrepresentation. I should expect such from you. Did I ever say that the church was demonic. No. I said there was some demonic activity among some of the believers. What I really said is that for the most part it was a psychological phenomena. Learn how to read, and quit with the false accusations and slander.

You have said the equivalent that Paul called the Corinthian Church a demonic church (which he did not, even though there was demonic activity going on in that church). Individauls were calling Christ accursed under the power of another spirit (1Cor.12:1-3). This happens in Charismatic churches as well. It has been documented. I have some of that documentation, where a Charsimatic was recognized by a Greek speaking pastor as saying "I love Satan" over and over again in perfect Greek. He thought he was speaking in tongues through the Holy Spirit. He was speaking through a demon.

Like I said, you are under no other spiritual leadership to keep your foolish errors in check.

I am under the authority of the Word of God, and of Christ himself. I am accountable to Him as His steward.
2 Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

As long as you can blame the Bible for saying certain things, you feel that it is always from God. Many who think differently from your view are under demonic influence or control.

Where did I say that? Did I ever accuse you of being under demonic control? Why the false accusations? Like I said, the Bible is my authority, not experience. That is the only claim that I have made on these threads.

I'll bet you have your congregation really under your thumb. So much for protecting the sheep of your flock.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
--Like the Bereans it is their obligation to study what I preach, and make sure it is of the Word of God.
I trust you will be a bit more objective and do the same thing.
DHK

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

The words "slain in the spirit " was something man made up to explain something happening to them like what you read in the following scripture.

Rev 1-17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

It still happens today. People are still overcome by the awesome Spirit of God. But don't look for the phrase "slain in the Spirit", because it is not in the bible.

Peace,

Tam

This was an isolated incident, as was Saul's experience on the road to Damascus.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Not every sinner is saved through the same narrow method by the way the Lord deals with them to bring them to Christ. The Lord's providences are often very different among various people.

The Lord does not sanctify or mature us in His faith in the same exact way or providences.

Not everyone will fall under the mighty power of the Holy Spirit. The Lord determines how He ministers among the people of God.

And yet we cannot disavow that two of the Apostolate experienced this unusual phenemenon. Whether it was before being saved or anywhere along the Christian life, it happens to some saints and not to other ones. The Lord is sovereign in these matters.

'As Webdog said, these were isolated incidents.'

Being slain in the Holy Spirit is not necessary for eternal salvation, but it is the way He deals with certain Christian people.

 

[tamborine lady]

It doesn't matter what you think about it webdog, thats where the expression came from, and it does happen today.

There's one other thing people don't understand, and that is that if the power of God manifests itself, even unbelievers in the path will be knocked over by it sometimes.

That's why the people with Paul fell also when he did. Paul was working for God (he thought), by killing Christians. He used to go into the synagoges and pull them out and slaughter them. He did not know Jesus, but the power overcame him, because Jesus/God is all powerful.

That's why John, who was saved fell as if dead!!

Ther's power in the word. It's not just a history book, it's alive!!
That's why the unsaved Romen soldiers fell when Jesus answered, "I am he". There's POWER in the words of Jesus".

Even today, when we read them out of the bible.

selah,

Tam

 

[Don]

Um...sorry to butt in, but the people with Paul did NOT fall down.

Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he (NOTE: Not "they") fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
7 And the men which journeyed with him stood (NOTE: They stood, not arose, which is what Paul does in the next verse; note also that "stood" here is a modifier for the next word, "speechless"; it doesn't make any sense that they stood up speechless, but that they were already standing, and stood there speechless) speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

And could y'all help me out? Where's that reference about the Roman soldiers falling when Jesus said, "I am he" found at?

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

It doesn't matter what you think about it webdog, thats where the expression came from, and it does happen today.

There's one other thing people don't understand, and that is that if the power of God manifests itself, even unbelievers in the path will be knocked over by it sometimes.

That's why the people with Paul fell also when he did. Paul was working for God (he thought), by killing Christians. He used to go into the synagoges and pull them out and slaughter them. He did not know Jesus, but the power overcame him, because Jesus/God is all powerful.

That's why John, who was saved fell as if dead!!

Ther's power in the word. It's not just a history book, it's alive!!
That's why the unsaved Romen soldiers fell when Jesus answered, "I am he". There's POWER in the words of Jesus".

Even today, when we read them out of the bible.

selah,

Tam

As Bibleboy said, if you base being "slain" off that incident, it sure better be similar in that those "slain" should be getting special revelation and prophecy to share with the rest of the world! I do not disagree it happens today, but I do disagree as to which spirit is behind it!

 

[webdog]

And could y'all help me out? Where's that reference about the Roman soldiers falling when Jesus said, "I am he" found at?

John 18:5 "Jesus the Nazarene," they answered. "I am He," Jesus told them. Judas, who betrayed Him, was also standing with them.
Joh 18:6 When He told them, "I am He," they stepped back and fell to the ground.

 

[Bible-boy]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

The words "slain in the spirit " was something man made up to explain something happening to them like what you read in the following scripture.

Rev 1-17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

It still happens today. People are still overcome by the awesome Spirit of God. But don't look for the phrase "slain in the Spirit", because it is not in the bible.

Peace,

Tam

Hello Tam,

We have already dealt with the interpretation of that passage and shown that the only way one can use it to support the idea of "being slain in the Spirit" is to engage in eisegesis of the text. Furthermore, we already agreed that eisegesis is an unacceptable hermeneutical method that results in flawed exposition and improper biblical interpretations.

So you all must provide some other Scripture to support the idea of being slain in the Spirit, or admit that it is not supported by Scripture and as such it is a false doctrine that should not be embraced.

[ February 09, 2006, 03:43 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]