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Belief

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by ONENESS, Jul 16, 2002.

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  1. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    What is sad is that you can't see that you are saying that you can earn salvation. I suggest you stop for a while and come back and look at what you are saying.</font>[/QUOTE]No chemitz I am not saying that we earn our salvation. We can not earn it. We can never repent enough, we can never be baptized enough, we can never speak in tongues enough, we can never be holly enough, we cannot earn it.

    Salvation is a free gift, Christ died for us and his death paied the price for our sins. Christ is the door to heaven. And all we have to do is enter through that door by faith. And once we have faith in him we will obey him. Do you or do you not agree?
     
    #81 ONENESS, Jul 24, 2002
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    #82 DHK, Jul 24, 2002
  3. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

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    No, because faith is the obediance. Not the outward acts of Love.
     
    #83 Chemnitz, Jul 24, 2002
  4. susanpet

    susanpet New Member

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    If I may answer; First of all a person cannot be saved unless the Holy Spirit is dealing with them and is convicted of their sins. I know, cause I tried this once. I went to the altar just because it was expected of me and after I prayed the sinner's prayer, I felt no different. It was many years later that I was sorry for my sins with a Godly sorrow. I KNEW that I had sinned against God and I had a geniune heartfelt sorrow. I KNEW that I needed Jesus to forgive me. I, for the first time in my life was sorry that I had done all the wrong things in my life. My soul was "sick". All I knew was that I needed a Savior!
    And He saved me. Then and there. In an instant!
    I knew nothing of doctrine. All I know is that Jesus gave me a peace I had never experienced. I felt alive! He took away a sin-sick heart and replaced it with a new, thankful, clean one!
    I could never earn such a gift! We can never make ourselves righteous enough to get saved.
    It is after we are saved that good works will naturally follow. To say that a person has to "obey" anything is adding works to salvation and this is very wrong. It is a free gift from God.
    Before I was saved, I "believed" that there was a God and all that. That alone won't save. You have to be CONVICTED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT in order to be saved. NO MAN CAN COME TO THE FATHER UNLESS THE SPIRIT DRAWS HIM.
    Jesus died a cruel death for us. I can't explain how His blood washes away our sins, I am just thankful that it does! Praise His Holy Name [​IMG]

    In Christ
    Susan ;)
     
    #84 susanpet, Jul 24, 2002
  5. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    No DHK, Repenting, Being Baptized and receiving the Holy Ghost are all a part of your faith.

    If you have faith in Jesus you will repent. If you dont repent than you dont have faith in Jesus.

    If you have faith you will be baptized in the Name of Jesus.

    If you have faith you will believe God and hold him true to his promise to us, which is the Holy Ghost.

    I would have to say that Faith is only part of the obediance.

    Being born again, is not just an outward act of Love it is a Requirement for salvation. If you have faith, you must be born again to enter into the Kingdom of heaven.
     
    #85 ONENESS, Jul 25, 2002
  6. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

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    Then you are saying that faith is not enough for salvation which stands in direct contradiction to Eph 2:8-9.
     
    #86 Chemnitz, Jul 25, 2002
  7. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    Then you are saying that faith is not enough for salvation which stands in direct contradiction to Eph 2:8-9.</font>[/QUOTE]Eph 2:8:For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of your selves; it is the gift of God
    9:Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

    Lets look at some examples

    Hebrews

    By faith Abel Offered
    By faith Noah prepared an ark
    By faith Abraham went
    By faith he sojourned in the land
    By faith Abraham offerd up Isaac
    By faith Moses refused
    By faith Moses forsook Egypt
    By faith he kept the Passover
    By faith they passed through the red sea
    By faith Joshua marched around Jericho

    What would the end result be if they did not obey?
    It would probably be said that

    Noah was not saved
    Abraham did not recieve his promise
    Moses did not cross the red sea
    Isreals first borns were killed
    the walls did not fall in on Jericho.

    Do you not see how Faith and Obidence goes hand in hand. You cant Have faith without being obident and you cant be obident without faith.

    So could it be said that:

    By faith we are born again
    By faith we Repent
    By faith we are baptized in the Name of Jesus
    By faith we accept the gift of the Holy Ghost
    By faith we live holy
    By faith we follow after peace
    By faith we love one another
    By faith we keep the commandments of God
    .
    .
    .

    [ July 25, 2002, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: ONENESS ]
     
    #87 ONENESS, Jul 25, 2002
  8. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

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    To say that is to read into the text what is not there. Faith does allow us to respond in Love but the actions of love by faith do not justify us before God.
     
    #88 Chemnitz, Jul 25, 2002
  9. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    QUOTE]Originally posted by Chemnitz:
    To say that is to read into the text what is not there. Faith does allow us to respond in Love but the actions of love by faith do not justify us before God.    [/QUOTE]

    Why did god make Abraham’s seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and give his seed The countries which he was promised? And why would all the nations of the earth be blessed through his seed?

    And also what is the Gospel? Is it just having faith? What if we do not obey the Gospel what will happen?

    [ July 25, 2002, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: ONENESS ]
     
    #89 ONENESS, Jul 25, 2002
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    To add to what Chem. has already pointed out, the O.T. examples used were already saved individuals before they acted on faith in the heroic deeds mentioned. For example the Scripture is quite clear that:

    Rom.4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
    Gen.6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

    Abraham was justified by faith. His works followed.
    DHK
     
    #90 DHK, Jul 25, 2002
  11. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    I agree with you but all I am saying is that he would never have been justified by his faith, if his faith did not cause him to do something.
     
    #91 ONENESS, Jul 25, 2002
  12. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    Any comments
     
    #92 ONENESS, Jul 25, 2002
  13. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Rom.4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
    2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
    3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
    4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
    5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    If his works had not followed it would have changed nothing. Works did not follow Lot. But the Bible declares him to be a just man. It was his faith and faith alone that saved.
    Verse two declares that if Abraham were justified by works it is only before man, not God.
    Verse three states that his righteousness came from God, when he believed on God by faith. Works had nothing to do with it.
    Verse five states that righteousness is imputed to the one who does no works at all; but simply believes on Christ, or he that justifies the ungodly.
    Works have nothing to do with salvation.
    For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, NOT OF WORKS.
    DHK
     
    #93 DHK, Jul 25, 2002
  14. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

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    Again you are saying that we can earn our salvation and that God lied about our faith justifying.
     
    #94 Chemnitz, Jul 25, 2002
  15. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    Ok, I understand. Let me ask you this...

    Lets say that God spoke to me and told me to sell my TV. I Believed God that he told me that, and I believed in him. Now what if I know that its God's Voice but refuse to obey?
     
    #95 ONENESS, Jul 26, 2002
  16. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    Again you are saying that we can earn our salvation and that God lied about our faith justifying.</font>[/QUOTE]No, I just believe that Obeying is part of your faith.
     
    #96 ONENESS, Jul 26, 2002
  17. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

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    Personally, I don't care what you do with your tv. Just don't think that getting rid of it is going to help you get in to heaven.

    Obediance is a product of faith but only faith counts towards salvation.
     
    #97 Chemnitz, Jul 26, 2002
  18. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    Personally, I don't care what you do with your tv. Just don't think that getting rid of it is going to help you get in to heaven.

    Obediance is a product of faith but only faith counts towards salvation.    </font>[/QUOTE]I was just useing the Tv thing as an example.

    But remember, faith without works is dead.
     
    #98 ONENESS, Jul 26, 2002
  19. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

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    I am not saying that it isn't. What I am saying is that works do not justify and are only a fruit of faith.
     
    #99 Chemnitz, Jul 26, 2002
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