Beliefs

[Carico]

There are some people here who claim that people choose to believe or not believe in God. So I would like to ask them if they think that evolutionary scientists know that the biblical account of creation is correct, but they disagree with it simply because they want to be wrong and look foolish so they can go to hell? Thank you.

 

[Amy.G]

There are some people here who claim that people choose to believe or not believe in God. So I would like to ask them if they think that evolutionary scientists know that the biblical account of creation is correct, but they disagree with it simply because they want to be wrong and look foolish so they can go to hell? Thank you.

No they don't want to go to hell. They don't even think about going to hell. They don't believe in it.

They know God exists as Romans 1 clearly says, but they don't want to submit to the authority of God. Just as Satan fell because he wouldn't submit to God's authority. He wanted to be God. Unbelievers want to be their own god.

 

[BaptistBob]

There are some people here who claim that people choose to believe or not believe in God. So I would like to ask them if they think that evolutionary scientists know that the biblical account of creation is correct, but they disagree with it simply because they want to be wrong and look foolish so they can go to hell? Thank you.

You're wrongly assuming that evolutionary scientists, categorically, don't believe there is a God (Christian God).

 

[Johnv]

You're wrongly assuming that evolutionary scientists, categorically, don't believe there is a God (Christian God).

People should do some research on Dr Robbert Bakker. He's arguably the most knowlegeable authority on paleontology. He was inspired as a child by a minister who was an amateur peleontologist. Bakker is the man responsible for the theory that dinosaurs are related to birds, and that they were warm blooded.

He's also a vocal born-again believer, and an ordained Pentecostal preacher who has brought thousands to Christ through his preaching.

 

[Carico]

No they don't want to go to hell. They don't even think about going to hell. They don't believe in it.

They know God exists as Romans 1 clearly says, but they don't want to submit to the authority of God. Just as Satan fell because he wouldn't submit to God's authority. He wanted to be God. Unbelievers want to be their own god.

Again, if they know that God exists then they know that hell exists if they don't submit to God's authority. So you contradicted yourself.

Evolutionary scientists don't believe that God exists because they are deceived by Satan that he does not exist. Many people forget that Satan exists and isn't called the "great deceiver" for nothing.

 

[Carico]

People should do some research on Dr Robbert Bakker. He's arguably the most knowlegeable authority on paleontology. He was inspired as a child by a minister who was an amateur peleontologist. Bakker is the man responsible for the theory that dinosaurs are related to birds, and that they were warm blooded.

He's also a vocal born-again believer, and an ordained Pentecostal preacher who has brought thousands to Christ through his preaching.

He can't at the same time believe in evolution and the biblical account of creation, especially Genesis 2:7. Evolutionary scientists also reject the account of Adam and Eve which means they reject their descendants as well. That's one reason they haven't even linked their imaginary creatures with Adam or his descendants. Nor can he believe in God and disagree with God's words for the fallible teachings of humans which change with the seasons. There are many people who call themselves sheep but inside are ferocious wolves. "By their fruits you will know them."

 

[Johnv]

I'm not arguing the issue of a creationist viewpoint vs an evolutionary viewoint. The argument by you was that evolutionary scientists don't believe there is a God. Yet, the foremost paleontologist and dinosaur expert in the world not only believes in God, but is a vocal born again believer and a fiery pentecostal preacher. I've had the pleasure of hearing Dr. Bakker preach, and he makes John MacArthur sound like a rank amateur.

 

[Carico]

I'm not arguing the issue of a creationist viewpoint vs an evolutionary viewoint. The argument by you was that evolutionary scientists don't believe there is a God. Yet, the foremost paleontologist and dinosaur expert in the world not only believes in God, but is a vocal born again believer and a fiery pentecostal preacher. I've had the pleasure of hearing Dr. Bakker preach, and he makes John MacArthur sound like a rank amateur.

And I have to go with what Jesus says; "He who is not with me is against me." One cannot both claim to believe in God and not believe his words because God and His words are one and the same. They will never contradict each other.

So since Jesus is right, that makes Dr. Baker a wolf in sheep's clothing.

But Dr. Baker aside, most evolutionary scientists don't claim to be sheep. Why do you think that is?

 

[Johnv]

The fact that you're perverting the verse "He who is not with me is against me", if you hold a strict literal 6 day creation belief as a litmus test for being a wolf in sheeps clothing, then reasonable conversation is not going to be possible, because your argument is unreasonable.

 

[Crabtownboy]

There are some people here who claim that people choose to believe or not believe in God. So I would like to ask them if they think that evolutionary scientists know that the biblical account of creation is correct, but they disagree with it simply because they want to be wrong and look foolish so they can go to hell? Thank you.

Have you thought about that there are others who interprete Genesis differently and that they strongly believe in God. For them there is no conflict between a God directed evolution and Genesis. For instance Genesis chapter 1 shows God creating from the simple to the complex ... mankind being last. This is in line with evolution ... from the simple to the complex.

Just a thought to consider.

 

[Carico]

The fact that you're perverting the verse "He who is not with me is against me", if you hold a strict literal 6 day creation belief as a litmus test for being a wolf in sheeps clothing, then reasonable conversation is not going to be possible, because your argument is unreasonable.

I didn't distort it I quoted it and I will do so again; "He who is not with me is against me." You can believe that as written. None of my words are in there. The following explains why Jesus is right:

If you deny the 6 day creation, then each day of creation would have to be thousands or millions of years old which would make Adam, created on the 6th day, thousands or millions of years old by the time of the fall. So then you also have to change Genesis 5:3 that says that Adam was 130 years old when he gave birth to Seth.

2 Peter 3:5-6, "But they deliberately forget that long ago, by God's word, the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water." (The word deliberately meaning that they have full knowledge of what God said in Genesis even though they've been blinded by Satan so they cannot believe it). That again proves scientists wrong about the big bang...unless you believe that scientists know better than God does.

You are also disobeying 1 Corinthians 4:6, "Do not go beyond what is written." Satan will always entice people to add to the bible what isn't there just like he did with Eve.


But again, that's what happens when you abandon God's words for the teachings of secular scientists who belong to the world. 1 John 4;5-6 tells us that worldly beliefs come from the spirit of falsehood. 1 Corinthians 3;19 also tell us "for the wisdom of the world is foolishness in God's sight."

So if you abandon the biblical account of creation for the teachings of mortal men whose words die when they do, you will not only contradict the rest of the bible as I've explained, you are continuing to disagree with the rest of scripture as has been explained as well.

 

[TomMann]

Have you thought about that there are others who interprete Genesis differently and that they strongly believe in God. For them there is no conflict between a God directed evolution and Genesis. For instance Genesis chapter 1 shows God creating from the simple to the complex ... mankind being last. This is in line with evolution ... from the simple to the complex.

Just a thought to consider.

Is it, in your mind, consistent with evolution that God created every living creature and claimed to create them after their kind? This to me indicates that while there may be differentiation within species, including man's efforts to create hybrid types, in general tadpoles will never become alligators and monkeys will never become men. To buy lock stock and barrel all that evolution claims does not just mean we have common origin with monkeys, but also with any and every living organism.

While I admit that God could have created in any way he choose, including evolution, that is not how scripture declares he did it.

 

[Johnv]

I didn't distort it I quoted it and I will do so again; "He who is not with me is against me." You can believe that as written. None of my words are in there.

I'm not arguing your quotation, I'm arguing your interpretation adn application. I believe the manner which you're interpreting and applying the verse is tantamount to a perversion of the verse.

... if you deny the 6 day creation... you also have to change Genesis 5:3 that says that Adam was 130 years old when he gave birth to Seth... That again proves scientists wrong about the big bang...unless you believe that scientists know better than God does.

Hmmm, sounds like you're limiting God to not be in control of the laws of space and time. But hey, that's just me.

You are also disobeying 1 Corinthians 4:6, "Do not go beyond what is written." Satan will always entice people to add to the bible what isn't there just like he did with Eve.

Then you should abandon any notion of the earth going around the sun, of the earth being shperical, or of the existence of other planets, since they are beyond what is written.

So if you abandon the biblical account of creation for the teachings of mortal men whose words die when they do, you will not only contradict the rest of the bible as I've explained, you are continuing to disagree with the rest of scripture as has been explained as well.

That's pretty much what was told to Galileo, Keppler, and Columbus. We should just add a line to the scientific method that reads "check to see if the finding is consistent with the bible".

 

[Carico]

I'm not arguing your quotation, I'm arguing your interpretation adn application. I believe the manner which you're interpreting and applying the verse is tantamount to a perversion of the verse

So why do you think that one can believe in God and not believe God's account of creation? Please explain that. Or maybe you're encouraging each person to go beyond what's written & make up a creation of his imagination then claim that our stories are from God.

Hmmm, sounds like you're limiting God to not be in control of the laws of space and time. But hey, that's just me.

God tells us what his laws are and how he created the universe and man. You feel qualified to disagree with him. I do not.

Then you should abandon any notion of the earth going around the sun, of the earth being shperical, or of the existence of other planets, since they are beyond what is written.

Wrong. The bible says the earth is a circle. And the earth doesn't go around the sun, it rotates on its axis. But even scientists themselves disagree with whether the sun revolves around the earth or the earth revolves around the sun.

So it sounds like your faith is in scientists, not God. But your faith will thus be in shifting sand since scientists disagree with each other all the time and constantly update their textbooks. that's why the one phrase we can count on from scientists is; "We now know that what we once thought was true is not true."

That's why yesterday's science is archaic to today's science and today's science will be archaic to tomorrow's science and tomorrow's science will be archaic to the science of the future. So scientists keep discarding one lie after another and replacing them with new lies because they're looking in the wrong place for the truth; their own imaginations instead of the word of God. That's why 1 John 4;5-6 explains that worldly beliefs come from the spirit of falsehood.

So since so far, I haven't seen anything in the bible that you do believe, then it would be wise to believe Psalm 146;3-4: "Do not put your trust in princes or in mortal men who cannot save. When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing."

So in heaven, no longer will we hear that apes can evolve into people or that the earth is billions of years old or that it began with BANG or any other story from the imaginations of mortal men. They will never be heard again because only God's words last forever because only the truth is eternal.

 

[Carico]

Johnny,

"He who is not with me is against me" means that one cannot follow both God and Satan. Satan rules the secular world, God rules those he's called out of the world to be his chosen as John 15:19 explains.

So God's chosen will never agree with Satan who rules the secular world because Satan is the spirit of falsehood as 1 John 4:5-6 explains. So only those called out of the world to be God's chosen will receive the Holy Spirit to distinguish truth from falsehood. God's chosen do not belong to the world and will not follow worldly beliefs.

But many "Christians" have gone over to Satan and tried to reconcile Satan's beliefs with God's word which can never be done as I've shown because Satan and God oppose each other. So it's fruitless to try to do that because all it does is end up contradicting the rest of the bible as well as I've shown.

So it will be pointless arguing with people who try to reconcile Satan's beliefs with God's beliefs since they oppose each other. if you want to follow the secular world that's ruled by Satan, that's up to you. I do not. if you do, then you and I are like night and day and will thus never agree and conversation between us will be at cross purposes.

 

[Johnv]

So why do you think that one can believe in God and not believe God's account of creation?

The problem is you're not differentiating between Scripture, and one's interpretation of scripture. If science doesn't align with my interpretation of scripture, then it's certainly within the possibility that my interpretation of scriture is in error. I'm not one to pick and choose what scripture I believe in. Likewise, I don't pick and choose what science to apply. My faith is solid. I don't need the scientific method to dictate my faith, and I dont' need my faith to dictate the scientific method. If anotehr person's faith is so weak that the two must be synchronous, that's their cross to bear. I have no need for it.

Wrong. The bible says the earth is a circle.

The Hebrew word translated "circle" is "chuwg". It referrs to a flat disc, like a frisbee. The Hebrews believed their world was a flat circle, with an expansed dome above it holding back waters.

A circle isn't a sphere. Not remotely. By translating it as "sphere" you are guilty of adding to scripture, which you accused me of.

And the earth doesn't go around the sun...

Are you serious? The earth goes around the sun once a year.

But even scientists themselves disagree with whether the sun revolves around the earth or the earth revolves around the sun.

:BangHead: Dude, you just lost all credibility.

So it sounds like your faith is in scientists, not God.

You couldn't be more wrong. My faith is in the Triune God, and in Him alone. It's not contingent upon anything of this world. As far as science, I have no more faith in science than I do of the rules of the road, or the laws of mathematics, or anything of that nature. Science is what it is. The rules of the road are what they are. Math is what math is. I understand them them as best as I reasonably am able. That doesn't mean I have faith in them, and they have no impact on my faith whatsoever. My faith is not in science, is not in math, and is not in the rules of the road. Yet those things exist, and I have no problem them them.

So in heaven, no longer will we hear that apes can evolve into people or that the earth is billions of years old or that it began with BANG or any other story from the imaginations of mortal men. They will never be heard again because only God's words last forever.

A nonissue. I heaven, one won't be concerned about anything. Period. And these discussions over creation vs evolution, calvinism vs arminianism, Pelligianism vs Tertullianism, Geocentrism vs Helicentrism, premill vs postmill vs amill, dipping vs sprinkling, etc, will be of no consequence whatseover.

 

[Carico]

Have you thought about that there are others who interprete Genesis differently and that they strongly believe in God. For them there is no conflict between a God directed evolution and Genesis. For instance Genesis chapter 1 shows God creating from the simple to the complex ... mankind being last. This is in line with evolution ... from the simple to the complex.

God is NOT divided. So he will not tell one person one thing and someone else the opposite because he is not a liar. It's people who are divided and 1 Corinthians 11:19 tell us why; "No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you has God's approval."

That means that divisions between Christians are between those approved by God and those who are not approved by God. Those approved by God will not go beyond what is written any more than they will follow Satan who rules the secular world. So those approved by God will not add or subtract words from the bible nor will they change Genesis 2:7, into; "For the Lord God formed the man out of the wombs of apes." Those are NOT God's words; they are the words of fallible human mortals that will die when they die. It's that simple.
Nevertheless, Satan always entices people to add to the bible like he did with Eve. So people who are ruled by Satan will continue to add to the bible and only the indwelling Holy Spirit can stop them.

 

[Johnv]

God is NOT divided.

I agree. Which is why I have no need for the rules of math, rules of science, or the rules of the road to dictate my faith to me. On the contrary, if one requires that one's faith changes the rules of science, math, or the rules of the road, the one is dividing God between them. I do not. God is in my faith, and no where else. My faith in God is in no where else but Him. That is why I don't need the rules of science to line up with my faith, or the rules of math to line up with my faith, or the rules of the road to line up with my faith. You, OTOH, do, which suggest to me that you are having a problem with not dividing God. I have no such problem.

This to me indicates that while there may be differentiation within species...

A little off-topic, but "kind" would probably refer to genus, not to species.

 

[Amy.G]

Wrong. The bible says the earth is a circle. And the earth doesn't go around the sun, it rotates on its axis. But even scientists themselves disagree with whether the sun revolves around the earth or the earth revolves around the sun.

:laugh: Thanks for the laugh! :thumbs:

 

[Carico]

:laugh: Thanks for the laugh! :thumbs:

Isaiah 40:22, "He sits enthroned about the circle of the earth." So even though it's no surprise to me that you laugh at God's words, it's not wise to do so.

As for scientists; just google whether the sun revolves around the earth or the earth revolves around the sun. There seems to be disagreement on that. But since again, their track record isn't too good since they change their minds with the seasons, then they're more in the dark than anyone who believes God's word. Or don't you believe 1 John 4:5-6 either?