'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved'

[DHK]

Of course it refers back to what happened at Pentecost. ...God granted repentance then.....then to the Samaritans ,then to the Gentiles. .....God granted repentance. ...not an opportunity for repentance. ....but indeed repentance itself.
You have not understood this verse for years.....in fact you never have understood it ever.
Soon ITL will search the archives. ...he will discover who it was that suggested that repentance was not necessary. ....it was not me......haha.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
God granted repentance (the opportunity to repent and be saved),
First to the Jews at Pentecost,
Second to the Samaritans in Acts 8,
and Third to the Gentiles in Acts 10, all according tot the command given to the disciples in Acts 1:8
--This would never be repeated again.

 

[DHK]

Once you get one to accept the necessity of repentance (not that this accomplishment is due to man, but God) the next thing is to dispel the false teachings propagated of late that it, repentance, only means and is limited to a change of mind only. Those good examples of the transformation in the NT show it is much more that this false assumption, 1 Thess. 1 being only one example.

First, who doesn't believe repentance is necessary?
Second, why don't you give your definition of repentance?

 

[Iconoclast]

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
God granted repentance (the opportunity to repent and be saved),
First to the Jews at Pentecost,
Second to the Samaritans in Acts 8,
and Third to the Gentiles in Acts 10, all according tot the command given to the disciples in Acts 1:8
--This would never be repeated again.

I already said that it went from Jew to Samaritans to gentiles so why do you repeat this?
The text does not say God gave an opportunity. .....that is your man centered error.
The text says......GOD GRANTED REPENTANCE. ...do you hate and despise this truth?

 

[Iconoclast]

First, who doesn't believe repentance is necessary?
Second, why don't you give your definition of repentance?

I will deal with this when I get to a computer.
I will show who it was if the posts were not deleted .

 

[DHK]

I already said that it went from Jew to Samaritans to gentiles so why do you repeat this?
The text does not say God gave an opportunity. .....that is your man centered error.
The text says......GOD GRANTED REPENTANCE. ...do you hate and despise this truth?

God "granted repentance" on the day of Pentecost. If he does so today does he also grant it with the sound of a mighty rushing wind, the accompaniment of flames of fire over each one who spoke with tongues?
It was a historical event never again to be repeated. Why do you resist the truth?
Why are so stiffnecked and always resist the Holy Spirit?
--I can ask the same demeaning questions of you. They really aren't necessary of every post of yours.

 

[HankD]

I already said that it went from Jew to Samaritans to gentiles so why do you repeat this?
The text does not say God gave an opportunity. .....that is your man centered error.
The text says......GOD GRANTED REPENTANCE. ...do you hate and despise this truth?

I really don't understand why those of the Arminian persuasion would have a problem with God "granting" repentance.

On the other hand He also does give opportunity: i.e. The preaching of Jonah:

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

In fact to add to the befuddlement, In this Jonah passage above the word "repent" is used of God! What!?

The church at Thyatira:

Revelation 2
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Both sides will often do a kind of hermeneutical tap dance to avoid those things we/they can't harmonize with the traditional/institutional position.
I'm no different.

God IMO can not in every case be poured into a specific theological mold.
It appears that He actually did things this way to keep us humble.

NKJV Ecclesiastes 8:17 then I saw all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. For though a man labors to discover it, yet he will not find it; moreover, though a wise man attempts to know it, he will not be able to find it.

OK so we have the full revelation now, BUT, these posting boards such as BB prove beyond a doubt (IMO) that Ecclesiastes 8:17 is still true in the 21st century.

Why not just take some of these at face value without trying to "figure it out" and do the tap dance.

And not run off to rifle through The Institutes.
Or as I have done - Chafer's Systematic Theology.
Yes it's tough.

HankD

 

[Iconoclast]

God "granted repentance" on the day of Pentecost. If he does so today does he also grant it with the sound of a mighty rushing wind, the accompaniment of flames of fire over each one who spoke with tongues?
It was a historical event never again to be repeated. Why do you resist the truth?
Why are so stiffnecked and always resist the Holy Spirit?
--I can ask the same demeaning questions of you. They really aren't necessary of every post of yours.

You cannot understand. ...it is beyond you.
Spirit Baptism was a once for all time event.....not repentance. God grants or graces persons with a Spirit enabled repentance at the time of regeneration.
You did not understand it a few years ago.....you have not made progress even now, but hey....it is almost the new year maybe you can resolve to understand those things that are absent from your theology.

By the way....are you saying when you make all those remarks they are not demeaning. .....do I have to make a list of your questions for you?
When I get on the computer later I will solve the puzzle for you.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Hey Hank you're a funny one! Don't assume that since you seek through Chafers works that others rifle through The Institute's for answers. I'm one who has never read Calvin's works.

There seems an air of accomplishment from your post as if you threw a wrench in God's granting repentance even in Nineveh.

I'd dare say that any forthcoming rebuttals from Reformed/DoG brothers to your argument will succeed without seeking any theological works whatsoever. Most are sound enough exegetes to do so without cracking open a theological work of any sort.

 

[Iconoclast]

I really don't understand why those of the Arminian persuasion would have a problem with God "granting" repentance.

On the other hand He also does give opportunity: i.e. The preaching of Jonah:

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

In fact to add to the befuddlement, In this Jonah passage above the word "repent" is used of God! What!?

The church at Thyatira:

Revelation 2
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Both sides will often do a kind of hermeneutical tap dance to avoid those things we/they can't harmonize with the traditional/institutional position.
I'm no different.

God IMO can not in every case be poured into a specific theological mold.
It appears that He actually did things this way to keep us humble.

NKJV Ecclesiastes 8:17 then I saw all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. For though a man labors to discover it, yet he will not find it; moreover, though a wise man attempts to know it, he will not be able to find it.

OK so we have the full revelation now, BUT, these posting boards such as BB prove beyond a doubt (IMO) that Ecclesiastes 8:17 is still true in the 21st century.

Why not just take some of these at face value without trying to "figure it out" and do the tap dance.

And not run off to rifle through The Institutes.
Or as I have done - Chafer's Systematic Theology.
Yes it's tough.

HankD

They have a man centered approach to doctrine, so they cannot admit God gives this ability.
If they would admit some of these things it all falls into place.

In Jonah the word repent is an anthropomorphic use of the word as God does not repent ever.

 

[HankD]

Your answers and comments brethren prove my point.
As does mine also.

A sub-point (and yes, I know it approaches mysticism) we have taken the mystery out of the works of God by making sure we can pour God into our own theological mold (and then very often we pronounce death by shibboleth on others or accuse others of being, well, dumb (or worst) directly or by innuendo.

I do it myself (or have done it) and probably will in the future until God grants me repentance from this sin.

James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

The scripture says God "repented". I'm not going to add or take away or try to explain it with terms like "anthropomorphic use". Please no offense iconoclast (I really mean that) but the first time I saw that usage was from a neo-orthodox author (this is one of their favorite phrases).

I'm not a "free" theology thinker so the only alternative for me is to put it in the category of "mystery" That is my comfort zone (and I respect yours - because I know you are not a neo-orthodox thinker iconoclast).

HankD

 

[Iconoclast]

You cannot understand. ...it is beyond you.
Spirit Baptism was a once for all time event.....not repentance. God grants or graces persons with a Spirit enabled repentance at the time of regeneration.
You did not understand it a few years ago.....you have not made progress even now, but hey....it is almost the new year maybe you can resolve to understand those things that are absent from your theology.

By the way....are you saying when you make all those remarks they are not demeaning. .....do I have to make a list of your questions for you?
When I get on the computer later I will solve the puzzle for you.

Your answers and comments brethren prove my point.
As does mine also.

A sub-point (and yes, I know it approaches mysticism) we have taken the mystery out of the works of God by making sure we can pour God into our own theological mold (and then very often we pronounce death by shibboleth on others or accuse others of being, well, dumb (or worst) directly or by innuendo.

I do it myself (or have done it) and probably will in the future until God grants me repentance from this sin.

James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

The scripture says God "repented". I'm not going to add or take away or try to explain it with terms like "anthropomorphic use". Please no offense iconoclast (I really mean that) but the first time I saw that usage was from a neo-orthodox author (this is one of their favorite phrases).

I'm not a "free" theology thinker so the only alternative for me is to put it in the category of "mystery" That is my comfort zone (and I respect yours - because I know you are not a neo-orthodox thinker iconoclast).

HankD

Hello Hank
I can keep this very simple.
God does not change
God does not repent
God does not lie.

An omniscient God, with perfect knowledge never needs to do any of these things.....never.
A lesser being being created and limited does do these things.

 

[DHK]

You cannot understand. ...it is beyond you.

Here you go with the ad hominems again. You can't help yourself.
I can understand. I understand it well. The problem with you is that you don't accept my view; it is not Calvinistic, and therefore you tell me I don't understand. How ridiculous. Everyone that disagrees with you "doesn't understand," because you are the one and only authority. That is a very arrogant position.

Spirit Baptism was a once for all time event.....not repentance. God grants or graces persons with a Spirit enabled repentance at the time of regeneration.

If it is a once and for all event I assume you are saying you are not baptized by the Spirit??
Does the Spirit indwell you?
God granted repentance to the Gentiles for this one time only. It was a one time event that Peter and those believing Jews recognized.

Look what William MacDonald says:
11:18 It is to the credit of these Hebrew Christians that when they had heard Peter's account, they recognized the hand of God in it all and did a complete about-face. All their objections were gone. In their place was praise to God for granting to the Gentiles repentance to life.
--It was a one-time event. Repentance had now come to the Gentiles. It was repentance in the sense of salvation which before this time was confined only to the Jews.

You did not understand it a few years ago.....you have not made progress even now, but hey....it is almost the new year maybe you can resolve to understand those things that are absent from your theology.

More ad hominemns. You are unable to make a cogent argument by yourself so you attack the messenger instead of the message. That is not debate; it is typical "Icon-speak."

By the way....are you saying when you make all those remarks they are not demeaning. .....do I have to make a list of your questions for you?
When I get on the computer later I will solve the puzzle for you.

You can't solve a puzzle you don't have an answer for.

 

[Iconoclast]

Here you go with the ad hominems again. You can't help yourself.
I can understand. I understand it well. The problem with you is that you don't accept my view; it is not Calvinistic, and therefore you tell me I don't understand. How ridiculous. Everyone that disagrees with you "doesn't understand," because you are the one and only authority. That is a very arrogant position.

If it is a once and for all event I assume you are saying you are not baptized by the Spirit??
Does the Spirit indwell you?
God granted repentance to the Gentiles for this one time only. It was a one time event that Peter and those believing Jews recognized.

Look what William MacDonald says:
11:18 It is to the credit of these Hebrew Christians that when they had heard Peter's account, they recognized the hand of God in it all and did a complete about-face. All their objections were gone. In their place was praise to God for granting to the Gentiles repentance to life.
--It was a one-time event. Repentance had now come to the Gentiles. It was repentance in the sense of salvation which before this time was confined only to the Jews.

More ad hominemns. You are unable to make a cogent argument by yourself so you attack the messenger instead of the message. That is not debate; it is typical "Icon-speak."

You can't solve a puzzle you don't have an answer for.

I will

Here you go with the ad hominems again. You can't help yourself.
I can understand. I understand it well. The problem with you is that you don't accept my view; it is not Calvinistic, and therefore you tell me I don't understand. How ridiculous. Everyone that disagrees with you "doesn't understand," because you are the one and only authority. That is a very arrogant position.

If it is a once and for all event I assume you are saying you are not baptized by the Spirit??
Does the Spirit indwell you?
God granted repentance to the Gentiles for this one time only. It was a one time event that Peter and those believing Jews recognized.

Look what William MacDonald says:
11:18 It is to the credit of these Hebrew Christians that when they had heard Peter's account, they recognized the hand of God in it all and did a complete about-face. All their objections were gone. In their place was praise to God for granting to the Gentiles repentance to life.
--It was a one-time event. Repentance had now come to the Gentiles. It was repentance in the sense of salvation which before this time was confined only to the Jews.

More ad hominemns. You are unable to make a cogent argument by yourself so you attack the messenger instead of the message. That is not debate; it is typical "Icon-speak."

You can't solve a puzzle you don't have an answer for.

I will expose the truth of this matter in a few hours when I get to a computer. You are still clueless and offering falsehoods yet you try and lecture me as you offer your own ad hominems. ....classic.

 

[HankD]

Hello Hank
I can keep this very simple.
God does not change
God does not repent
God does not lie.

An omniscient God, with perfect knowledge never needs to do any of these things.....never.
A lesser being being created and limited does do these things.

I know.
God can never do these things you have iterated but then again He can never be reduced to "very simple".
But it's still a mystery to me as to what it means for God to repent (the word the Holy Spirit chose).

HankD

 

[Iconoclast]

I know.
God can never do these things you have iterated but then again He can never be reduced to "very simple".
But it's still a mystery to me as to what it means for God to repent (the word the Holy Spirit chose).

HankD

I will send a link to a 6 message series I heard that is helpful on this question.
How you approach the verses is important.
This Pastor shows 3 categories of verses and addresses them.
Obviously God cannot deny who He is.....as He would no longer be God if anything was beyond his control.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I will

I will expose the truth of this matter in a few hours when I get to a computer. You are still clueless and offering falsehoods yet you try and lecture me as you offer your own ad hominems. ....classic.

Well Iconoclast he thinks there is disagreement because he's not 'Calvinist'. It's not that at all, he's simply not even close to being orthodox in the majority of his teachings. That is the issue.

 

[HankD]

I will send a link to a 6 message series I heard that is helpful on this question.
How you approach the verses is important.
This Pastor shows 3 categories of verses and addresses them.
Obviously God cannot deny who He is.....as He would no longer be God if anything was beyond his control.

Thank You iconoclast.

HankD

 

[HankD]

Hey Hank you're a funny one! Don't assume that since you seek through Chafers works that others rifle through The Institute's for answers. I'm one who has never read Calvin's works.

There seems an air of accomplishment from your post as if you threw a wrench in God's granting repentance even in Nineveh.

I'd dare say that any forthcoming rebuttals from Reformed/DoG brothers to your argument will succeed without seeking any theological works whatsoever. Most are sound enough exegetes to do so without cracking open a theological work of any sort.

Uh, well I think maybe I didn't refine and/or target my words sufficiently.

Yes, I admit to this "air of accomplishment" because of my different avenues of higher learning - pride of life - (both in the sciences and theology) which has always been a struggle for me.

And yes I occasionally like throwing wrenches into a debate, not to make trouble (that's probably a "white" lie) but FWIW in an attempt to make folks think "outside the box".

That is - the box of - doctrinal purity is Christ's measure of a commendable local church or individual Christian.

Looking at the local church of Ephesus in the the Book of Revelation. Jesus highly commends them
Revelation 2
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

They were workers, patient and hated evil. They had a strong doctrinal position which they defended even against those who said they were apostles, found them to be liars (strong talk) and no doubt booted them out of the assembly.

BUT... (they were cold)...

Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

So, sometimes the behavior we display towards other brethren reveals that perhaps we have the same problem thinking that doctrinal purity is the sole measure of Christ's approval of a local church (or individual).

HankD

 

[DHK]

I will

I will expose the truth of this matter in a few hours when I get to a computer. You are still clueless and offering falsehoods yet you try and lecture me as you offer your own ad hominems. ....classic.

I expounded and explained Acts 11:18 for you. And this is how you respond. Pitiful.

 

[Iconoclast]

I expounded and explained Acts 11:18 for you. And this is how you respond. Pitiful.[/QUOTE

Your explanation was pitiful. ....I will show it in awhile. You expounded nothing.
You offered a theory that is defective.
You confused Spirit Baptism with the indwelling of the Spirit.
We will discover this shortly as we search together.