Best IFB seminary (Long distance)?

[Broadus]

Originally posted by Paul33:
Thomas Road Baptist Church is SBC according to Jerry Falwell.

Also, LU now has trustees on the board that are nominated/elected from the state convention (I believe two). Does that not bring LU under the umbrella of the SBC?

At the most, LU may have an amiable relationship with the conservative VA state convention. Having two trustees nominated by the state convention, if that's the case, indicates some sort of relationship, but certainly not oversight.

Baptist state conventions are autonomous and do not report to the SBC, as the SBC is autonomous and does not report to the state conventions. (Likewise, churches are autonomous and are under the oversight of no one but their local congregations.) LU has no direct relationship, to my knowledge, with the SBC.

All it takes to be considered a church in the SBC is to give a very modest sum to SBC entities, so TRBC is SBC in that regard. LU, though, is not under the auspices of either VA state convention and remains an independent institution of higher education. As I stated above, there may be some relationship, but if it were really a VA Baptist convention college, all of its trustess would be elected by the state convention. I will be glad to stand corrected if evidence shows otherwise.

Hope that's clearer than a glass of muddy water!

Bill

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Good advice Rhet. I think I can trust Boadus.

 

[Broadus]

POB,

Trust, but verify!

Bill

 

[dcorbett]

West Coast Baptist College has the first year available online now. IFB competely. KJV only.

Lancaster, California is where it is located.

Debbie C

 

[bapmom]

THey've got some excellent teachers at West Coast, from a variety of educational backgrounds.

http://www.westcoastbaptist.edu/

 

[Paul33]

Correct. LU has some sort of relationship with the SBC through the appointment of two trustees.

The point I was making, and not very well, is that Jerry Falwell has trumpeted his relationship with the SBC in his Journal that he sends out.

Jerry is pleased to be part of the SBC and pleased to have SBC appointed trustees on LU's board!

So, from Jerry himself, there is a connection. LU is a good fit for the SBC and Jerry is pleased to have this be the case.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by Mexdeaf:
Who has the best (legitimate) IFB long distance seminary program, in your opinion, and why?

I have been looking at Louisiana Baptist U. Any thoughts on them?

Being interested in distance education and degree mills, I have followed Louisiana Baptist University and its precursor, Christian Baptist University, with interest for a couple of decades. Although the school has improved and polished its image, it still carries the faint aroma of a degree mill. I would not call it a degree mill but I would classify Louisiana Baptist University in the same category as Andersonville Theological Seminary.

Look at their faculty. Most have their graduate degrees, if not all their degrees, from either Christian Baptist University, the old name for Louisiana Baptist University, or Louisiana Baptist University. Some have their degrees from other less than wonderful schools including the President. IMHO, people who pursue such degrees are more interested in being called doctor than learning and knowledge. Perhaps we ought to label these degrees as “perk” degrees. One does some work and learns a little but the work and learning is not worthy of a graduate degree. If you go this route, just be aware that you are not getting a first-class degree or a first-rate education. Really, it’s your choice and what you want.

I must admit that they have improved their image. They are slick in marketing and making statements that imply more than they actually mean. Furthermore, they are bringing in the big guns with Falwell speaking at their graduation.

If you want an IFB degree via distance education and don’t care about accreditation, check out Crown College in Powell, TN—I hear that they have just instituted a masters program by DE. I don’t know a lot of specifics about them but I do think they are credible and sincere in their approach. I have less confidence in Andersonville, Louisiana, and Bethany.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by Paul33:
Correct. LU has some sort of relationship with the SBC through the appointment of two trustees.

The point I was making, and not very well, is that Jerry Falwell has trumpeted his relationship with the SBC in his Journal that he sends out.

Jerry is pleased to be part of the SBC and pleased to have SBC appointed trustees on LU's board!

So, from Jerry himself, there is a connection. LU is a good fit for the SBC and Jerry is pleased to have this be the case.

Jerry needs the SBC as recruiting grounds for his students since many IFB's no longer support him. Of course, he wants the connections.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by bapmom:
THey've got some excellent teachers at West Coast, from a variety of educational backgrounds.

http://www.westcoastbaptist.edu/

Yes, this is an excellent choice, although unaccredited, for one looking specifically for an IFB college. West Coast is generating a lot of excitement in IFB circles. It is much better than LBU (Louisiana Baptist University). Some in IFB circles see West Coast as the successor to TTU. There are a lot of old Temple alumni supporting West Coast. Also, a campus-based college, as a rule, is more credible in its DE offerings than a purely education at a distance institution. Please note this a very broad generalization that does not always hold. It is just that fly-by-night operations generally have no campuses--they operate from storefront offices or post office boxes.

 

[PamelaK]

I would echo John of Japan's earlier comments in this thread on Maranatha Baptist Bible College in Watertown, WI. Good choice!

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by paidagogos:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bapmom:
THey've got some excellent teachers at West Coast, from a variety of educational backgrounds.

http://www.westcoastbaptist.edu/

Yes, this is an excellent choice, although unaccredited, for one looking specifically for an IFB college. West Coast is generating a lot of excitement in IFB circles. It is much better than LBU (Louisiana Baptist University). Some in IFB circles see West Coast as the successor to TTU. There are a lot of old Temple alumni supporting West Coast. Also, a campus-based college, as a rule, is more credible in its DE offerings than a purely education at a distance institution. Please note this a very broad generalization that does not always hold. It is just that fly-by-night operations generally have no campuses--they operate from storefront offices or post office boxes.

</font>[/QUOTE]Please allow me to moderate my original enthusiasm slightly. I did my homework, instead of listening only to hearsay, and looked at the qualifications of their faculty. I was somewhat disappointed. They have too many with Hyles-Anderson and Bethany degrees. Academically, they lack rigor. Dr. Goddard, I think, was registrar at PCC once. He does have a credible doctorate from Nova. IMHO, they need a good academic dean (No, I’m not looking for the job) who will push the academics and put some rigor into the program. The faculty needs to be developed. Instead of getting the easy degrees from Louisiana Baptist University, Bethany and Hyles-Anderson, they need to take the time and effort to earn good degrees from reputable schools. It’ll take time and work but it will help the school tremendously. Everyone starts at zero but it’s where you go from there that matters. On the other hand, they do have a number of things going for them. There is a good spirit and lots of enthusiasm among the students. Motivation can do a lot even in academic matters. They are part of a dynamic and growing ministry. As far as I know, they do not practice the excesses associated with some other large, dynamic organizations.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by PamelaK:
I would echo John of Japan's earlier comments in this thread on Maranatha Baptist Bible College in Watertown, WI. Good choice!

Ditto!

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by Paul1611:
Mexdeaf, most of the people I have corresponded with here on the forum are not IFB. From looking at all of the posts it seems that if a Bible College is not accredited, and if a Bible college believes that the KJV is the Word of God, then it is no good. Don't even waste your time. I could recommend a few IFB college/seminaries that have trained great soul winning, street preaching, door knocking, sound Bible teaching men, that spend their time in nursing homes, prisons, and on the streets preaching the gospel. But since the college they graduated from isnt accredited and uses the KJVB I better not. I guess it is best if you just take the advice of those who have already posted on this section, and find yourself a "good" accredited college/seminary, that will teach you greek/hebrew and charge you an "arm and a leg". I mean the last thing we need is another street preaching, door knocking, soul winner, from one of those non acreddited colleges out there. God forbid!!! No what we need is another "preacher" who spends all his time in a office trying to translate the Bible again.
"Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth LABOURERES into his harvest." But who needs labourers when you can have a bunch of so called "scholars"

1. I am IFB and somewhat educated (hopefully, somewhat intelligent too).
2. You sound embittered and jealous. Since I am IFB and don’t share your rancor, I repudiate you as not being representative of IFB thinking. Unfortunately, a few vocal and embittered spirits give the rest of us a bad odor.
3. Your post is void of rhyme or reason. Your thesis seems to be that soul-winning fervor and scholarship don’t mix. How so? These are two separate things and you cannot substitute one for the other. On the other hand, one can be a fervent soul-winner and well educated.
4. I have absolutely no problem with a school teaching the practical hands-on aspect of ministry. I have no problem with non-accreditation. I have no problem with people who lack sheepskins teaching. However, I do have a problem with people handing out wholesale degrees, especially doctorates, without the academic standards comparable to recognized degree qualifications. IMHO, this is a matter of integrity. Where is our integrity? In our blind quest for significance, we lose our ethics and integrity. It is a blot on the Name of Christ.
5. It is interesting that you disparage Greek and Hebrew, yet these are the very languages in which most of the Bible was written. I assume you read neither Greek nor Hebrew. So, how do you know the KJV (I am KJV) is an accurate translation? Are you taking some man’s word for it?
6. From your post, it seems that you set a premium on ignorance and it shows.
7. Your caricature of everyone else is sadly distorted. To quote a trite saying, “There’s more heat than light here.”
8. There are some good, unaccredited IFB schools and there are a bunch of poor excuses of schools, which bring reproach upon the cause of Christ, run by egomaniacs.

These tend to be contemptuous toward standards and anyone outside their small circle.

I question the motivation behind your sarcastic attack on those espousing higher academic standards and accreditation on this board. Although I don’t agree with them on every point, I do respect their sincerity and viewpoints. I cannot understand why anyone would want to promote mediocrity or substandard. Scripture commands us to excellence. “And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. (Colossian 3:23-24)”

It is interesting to note how the folks from your point of view exalt in calling one another doctor. Every preacher, regardless of age, education or experience, has some doctorate, honorary or otherwise. Why are titles and degrees so important to you guys that you form substandard schools, even degree mills, to award yourselves undeserved doctorates? Methinks it is pride which is sinful! It has nothing to with evangelistic fervency—it is all about self.

 

[Preacher Boy88]

I'm curious as to why a Hyles-Anderson College Diploma isn't considered "reputable" as stated above. When I was searching for the right Bible College to go to, I looked for a college such as Hyles-Anderson and West Coast due mainly to the fact that they're both unaccredited! I don't want to go to a Bible College where the cotton-pickin state has an influence on the college because of accreditation. I'd go to an unaccredited IFB Bible College before I took a step into an accredited college, Bible or not!

 

[bapmom]

There might be a few at West Coast that went to Hyles, but the majority of them didnt. Even if they DID, Hyles has a rigorous academic curriculum. I dont know why so many on this forum seem to think that this is not so. Their VP (acting as President) went to MBBC, Dr. Rasmussen went to Temple....and both of these men are very scholarly. I know them well.

IFBs have different priorities for their education. We want a place that will teach us to minister to people....not just teach us how to read and respond in theological debates. There's plenty of scholarly pursuits within our colleges, although many are not accredited for philosophical reasons. Our preacher boys learn Greek just like the other schools do, they have apologetics and hermeneutics, and all the others just like any other college.
But there is also an emphasis placed on actually getting into the ministry.

Sometimes I feel like this is overdone, theres so much required of the students that they can't possibly get all their homework done AND work a job if they need to.
But one thing I like about West Coast AND MBBC is that they have a pretty good balance when it comes to that.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by Preacher Boy88:
I'm curious as to why a Hyles-Anderson College Diploma isn't considered "reputable" as stated above.

I was speaking of academic reputation and credibility. Academic rigor is fairly low. Look at the faculty qualifications. Most of them have their degrees from Hyles-Anderson. Many of them have only baccalaureate degrees and are teaching college courses. A few instructors with only bachelor degrees may be acceptable but studies have repeatedly shown that the number of doctorates on faculty increase the academic rigor. Furthermore, most of the people boasting doctorates only have honorary doctorates (e.g. L.H.D.). According to my count, there are only two real Ph.D.’s (Daniel Siemer, M.D. is listed as part-time) on faculty—Wendell Evans (Ph.D., BJU), the President, and Peter Cowling (Ph.D., Georgia Tech). Since Dr. Evans is the President, I presume his time is taken up mainly by administrative duties, not teaching.

Is Dr. Cowling the whole science and math department? Is one science-math professor enough for a college the size of Hyles-Anderson? The courses listed in the catalog under science and mathematics is too heavy a load for one person. I do not see anyone else qualified for college level calculus and analytical geomentry (5 hr. course each semester), advanced calculus, linear algebra, mechanics (classical physics), electronics, inorganic chemistry, modern physics, and modern geometry. (Please note that I did not include the more general science and math courses such as physical science survey, life science survey, astronomy, geology, college algebra and trigonometry, general mathematics, etc.) I see no other qualified science/math instructor except for one other individual, Mr. Philip Pins, who may be qualified for teaching these courses but he is ironically the English, Greek and Hebrew instructor—I doubt he has the time to add a few science or math courses.

Mr. Pins holds the B.S. and M.S. from Iowa State, which are presumably engineering degrees since he is a registered PE and Iowa State is a fairly well known engineering school. His only other degree is a M.Ed. from Hyles-Anderson. I assume this degree is in education. Now, where did Mr. Pins earn his English, Greek and Hebrew qualifications? No other schools or degrees are listed. This brings up another problem with people teaching out of their field.

The few people who hold graduate degrees have degrees in education rather than content areas such as English, history, mathematics, etc. For college level teaching, the faculty needs to be heavily endowed with members holding strong content degrees. Anyone with any degree will not do.

Although I cannot declare definitely, it appears to me that they have done the following:
1. Used their own people on staff to form the college faculty including their Christian school faculty and alumni. PCC did this in the beginning but they sent their folks off to graduate school to get qualified as well as hiring outside qualified personnel.
2. Awarded honorary doctorates to college instructors so they would have more doctors on faculty
3. Used anyone with a degree from any field

In sum, Hyles-Anderson’s academic standards are in question for the following reasons:
1. A lack of earned doctorates on the teaching faculty
2. Instructors teaching outside their content areas (I did not find a single MBA for the business department.)
3. Too many degrees from Hyles-Anderson (There are a number of qualified people with reputable degrees from other IFB schools)
4. Too many instructors with only baccalaureate degrees
5. Level and content of some courses (e.g. leadership) are questionable

When I was searching for the right Bible College to go to, I looked for a college such as Hyles-Anderson and West Coast due mainly to the fact that they're both unaccredited! I don't want to go to a Bible College where the cotton-pickin state has an influence on the college because of accreditation.

I share your sentiments regarding state control but accreditation has absolutely nothing to do with state control. Accreditation is by private agencies. Just how do you think the state would have any influence on the college by accreditation. The state obviously doesn’t require accreditation.

I'd go to an unaccredited IFB Bible College before I took a step into an accredited college, Bible or not!

Why? Maranatha and Clearwater are accredited. What’s wrong with them? What is your reasoning or Scriptural basis?

 

[Brice]

Paid,

You're right on. Good work, I would've said all that, but that's a whole lot of typing.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by bapmom:
There might be a few at West Coast that went to Hyles, but the majority of them didnt.

The majority—yes—but over 20% of the faculty do hold their degrees from Hyles-Anderson according to their web site. This is not a few but it is a significant number.

Even if they DID, Hyles has a rigorous academic curriculum.

How do you know? I beg to differ. There’s one on this thread who can back up my statement by personal experience, I think. I just don’t see the earmarks of rigor from their catalog and I know their reputation within IFB circles. This is just being honest—I am not anti-Hyles-Anderson or biased against them. However, I do believe we must be truthful and honest even when it is about us—IFB’s. Too long, we have covered up our flaws and shortcomings with superlatives. This, IHMO, is not honoring to Christ. It’s not loyalty to Christ or His Cause but it is our own sinful pride.

I dont know why so many on this forum seem to think that this is not so.

Look at their catalog. It’s all there. Also, please consider my earlier post on Hyles-Anderson.

Their VP (acting as President) went to MBBC, Dr. Rasmussen went to Temple....and both of these men are very scholarly. I know them well.

According to the West Coast web site, Dr. Rasmussen has all of his degrees from Hyles-Anderson. I wonder how they made his Ed.D. since no one presently on faculty seems to have an earned doctorate in education, which I presume is the field of his Ed.D.

IFBs have different priorities for their education.

This is true and I agree 100% but most often this is used as an excuse to justify whatever we are doing. It is not spiritual to be second-rate if you can do better. We ought to be doing our best to the glory of God. I am IFB and have been around IFB circles for a long while but I don’t buy this argument as an excuse.

We want a place that will teach us to minister to people....not just teach us how to read and respond in theological debates. There's plenty of scholarly pursuits within our colleges, although many are not accredited for philosophical reasons.

Some of our colleges could not be accredited because they don’t have the qualified faculty to teach college-level courses.

Our preacher boys learn Greek just like the other schools do, they have apologetics and hermeneutics, and all the others just like any other college.

I saw only 3 semesters of Greek at Hyles-Anderson and one semester of Hebrew. I did not find any Greek exegesis courses for NT books. I did not really see a course in hermeneutics or apologetics. I did see a lot of leadership courses that were awfully similar to the stuff at the pastors’ school. IMHO, this is not college-level academic material.

But there is also an emphasis placed on actually getting into the ministry.

This is a good emphasis but it is not a substitute for academics if you are going to award college degrees. Forget the degrees and teach practical Christian training but don’t call it a college degree if it doesn’t have the academic quality for a degree. This is a matter of integrity and honesty.

Sometimes I feel like this is overdone, theres so much required of the students that they can't possibly get all their homework done AND work a job if they need to.

I agree. This is a problem.

But one thing I like about West Coast AND MBBC is that they have a pretty good balance when it comes to that.

I like West Coast too. However, I am not blind to weaknesses and I want to see them improve. There’s good potential there, IHMO.

 

[bapmom]

That part I said about overworking their students? That was an honest evaluation of HAC and Longview that I know about from personal contact with students there.

Other than that, I haven't gone to HAC, but I HAVE gone to West Coast. We were a part of their church for four years, and my husband took two years of college there when they were still very new.

I thought again on what you said about Dr. Rasmussen.....perhaps he taught at Temple, but I do know he went to HAC for awhile back in the 70s? I want to say?

Most of what I wrote about academic standards was about West Coast. I might have garbled that a bit, or made it hard to follow. Sorry.

If my husband remembers right, West Coast requires 4 years of Greek.

I agree that we need to honestly evaluate the schools around us, even within IFB. I must say, I am extremely loath though to criticize in public, especially in places like this where everything IFB is seen as extremism.

One thing I didnt like about HAC back in the late 80s was their lack of many courses for the ladies. Being a lady I cared about that.

Thing is, Dr. Rasmussen especially is a man of great wisdom and knowledge. I admire him greatly, as does my husband. He's a very good man, whether anyone likes where he graduated from 30? years ago.

This is too long a post on this, I know....Im sorry.

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by bapmom:

I thought again on what you said about Dr. Rasmussen.....perhaps he taught at Temple, but I do know he went to HAC for awhile back in the 70s? I want to say?
....

Thing is, Dr. Rasmussen especially is a man of great wisdom and knowledge. I admire him greatly, as does my husband. He's a very good man, whether anyone likes where he graduated from 30? years ago.

Dr. Rasmussen didn't go to TTU, and I don't believe he ever taught there (could be wrong). I went to TTU with his wife, Suza, and knew her a little. She was a lovely girl, very popular on campus. I asked her out, but fortunately for all concerned she turned me down!