Best Seminary in the world....

[PastorSBC1303]

Rhetorician,

No you misunderstood me. The Master's Seminary and Master's Divinity school are two completely different schools. John MacArthur's Master's Seminary definitely needs to be in the discussion of top schools. I have nothing but the utmost respect for him and his school.

The Master's divinity school has a link that is listed in one of the previous posts, it is nothing in the league of The Master's Seminary.

Sorry for the confusion! I think your post is right on.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Originally posted by Jabbezzz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
[Masters Divinity School] is not a top notch school in the academic world. If you think it is, please make you case. I have not seen or heard anything to change my mind. But give it your best shot...

Did I suggest that MDS is "top notch?" Luther Rice, Bob Jones, Tennessee Temple and a host of other schools are not "top notch in the academic world." Top notch would be right at the top, would it not?

I have no connection with MDS, I only asked why you did not expect to see MDS on the list. </font>[/QUOTE]I didn't expect to see it listed because it is not a top notch school with the likes of many others listed in this post. So when a question is posed as the best seminary in the world, one would not automatically think of MDS.

 

[Nord]

Originally posted by Jabbezzz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
[Masters Divinity School] is not a top notch school in the academic world. If you think it is, please make you case. I have not seen or heard anything to change my mind. But give it your best shot...

Did I suggest that MDS is "top notch?" Luther Rice, Bob Jones, Tennessee Temple and a host of other schools are not "top notch in the academic world." Top notch would be right at the top, would it not?

I have no connection with MDS, I only asked why you did not expect to see MDS on the list. </font>[/QUOTE]As I mentioned earlier, if I recall, MDS used to offer a DPM degree for six courses with no exams. This tends to make it very convenient but not necessarily in the top schools for a number of reasons.

As for Bob Jones.....they are very well respected academically as attested to by the fact that even unaccredited, their grads made it into some of the top grad schools in the US.

Nord

 

[Rhetorician]

Nord,

I was reared in a Bob Jones/IFB culture. Although, my church was an SBC churh "in name only." I was a bus pastor, driver, "soul-winner," and stuff. I have attended the Bus Conferences--the whole smeel. So, I know some of the pathos and ethos of the movement.

Because of some of the talk on these threads I went to FBC Hammond's web page and listened to parts of Jach Hyles' sermons again. That old fundy part of me rared up again. I felt torn on the one side and liberated on the other hand. It is truly hard "to get the country out of the boy" as it were.

I know what they (the fundies) do & say has some a seed of truth, I know they have a real zeal; but I thought we came out of the "pope" culture long ago in our Baptist history. Don't get me wrong, I think there is even a place and need for what they do. I just don't think it includes me as I have grown. We have grown apart, I have not grown better than them. I have only grown differently from them.

I have said all that to say this: Bob Jones grads are some of the most excellent you will ever find in any field of service. Musically, exegetically, expositionally, devotionally, intellectually, missionally, evangelistically, etc., et al; they ate the cream of the crop!!!!! But their inbreeding on the grad school & seminary levels is way beyond anything that produces good academics. I am certain this is bacause they fear to "open Pandora;s Box" as it were.

The last time I looked at their seminary catalogue I don't remember finding one prof who had a terminal degree from an outside Univ or grad school. Your point is well taken; they go other places and always do the very best while there. Some of you with better insight than mine help me here??? Are they still so afraid of "outside learning" that they discourage "academic freedom.?!" I think I know the answer. If the fundamental movement has not grown any more than that I am afraid that it it destined to failure AS the leaders of the past pass away.

There is quit a connundrum here is there not? On the one hand they struggle to maintain an outdated identity of the Old Southern past. On the other hand, they know intellectually and academically that they need to reshape and resound Fundamentalism for the challenges of the 21st Century.

Let me hear what all of you have to say!

sdg!

rd

 

[Rhetorician]

Once again I am sorry for the typos.

rd

 

[Broadus]

Originally posted by Rhetorician:
There is quit a connundrum here is there not? On the one hand they struggle to maintain an outdated identity of the Old Southern past. On the other hand, they know intellectually and academically that they need to reshape and resound Fundamentalism for the challenges of the 21st Century.

Let me hear what all of you have to say!

sdg!

rd

I was following you until you got down to the "old Southern past" part. What do you mean by that? Are you saying that BJ's fundamentalism is a result of trying to maintain "The Lost Cause"? The same charge was made agains J. Gresham Machen, a charge I refuted in a doctoral seminar paper that was published in the Trinity Journal three or four years ago. I'm not sure, however, if that is what you meant.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Rhetorician]

Broadus,

I am in no way charging BJU with "the South's gonna' rise again!" Having said that however, there is that old South Carolina ethos and pathos still around; i.e., "the Strom Thurman ideology" if you will. It is my considered opinion that it is still at BJU on some basic level.

My experience with BJU is that they are helpful to other cultures in social ministries and such, but seem to have (from my perspective) a somewhat paternal, condescending, and patronizing attitude toward the same groups they evangelize. This is only one perspective having had some 40 years of influence on me from a pastor and his family who baptized me, married me, disciplied me, & ordained me. My logic may be flawed. I am open for correction and new revelation or information. But, this is my critique for this point in time.

I think that the observations of the other threads concerning BJU's admin. & history might bear this out.

But, let us not get lost in the theme of this thread. I still maintain that they are some of the most excellent professionals in any field they represent. I went to their web page and did some fresh research this morning after my post. There is not one prof there who has a terminal degree from another outside institution. I would, however, like to dialogue with some of their scholars. I would love to hear a paper at a professional conference. I would like to read a dissertaton(s) maybe only in a cursory way. It is my opinion that they would be "world class!"

DO NOT BE CONFUSED!!!! I AM ONE OF THEIR BIGGEST FANS!!! What I offer I offer as an academic critique NOT a CRITICISM MEANT WITH A CRITICAL SPIRIT!!

With the admin change going to someone outside the family, they may want the Bible/Theology/Grad School Faculty "carrying the torch" way into the next century. I am, however, surprised that the "torch" as it were is passing to someone outside the dynasty. I would have thought that a "no-no!"

I hope this helps to "stir the pot" and explain my thoughts above!

sdg!

rd

 

[Broadus]

RD,

There must be something about my understanding (or lack of) your last paragraphs! What do you mean by "With the admin change going to someone outside the family, they may want the Bible/Theology/Grad School Faculty 'carrying the torch' way into the next century. I am, however, surprised that the 'torch' as it were is passing to someone outside the dynasty. I would have thought that a 'no-no!'"?

The new president is Stephen Jones, fourth generation. I must be missing something.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Rhetorician]

Broadus,

Is Stephen Jones a son-n-law or some such? I skimmed the previous thread(s). I may have missed the gist of the issue. Is he family? If so, I stand corrected on that issue. Always open to rebuttal, correction, or new info.

What about the rest that I have declared?!

sdg!

rd

 

[Broadus]

Originally posted by Rhetorician:
Broadus,

Is Stephen Jones a son-n-law or some such? I skimmed the previous thread(s). I may have missed the gist of the issue. Is he family? If so, I stand corrected on that issue. Always open to rebuttal, correction, or new info.

What about the rest that I have declared?!

sdg!

rd

Stephen is the second son of Bob III. Bob IV is with World magazine.

I'm usually with you until you get to the last couple of paragraphs! I think BJU wants so desparately to maintain their philosophy completely that they don't want to take the chance of hiring terminal degrees in religion outside of themselves. Academically, though, I don't think that's healthy.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[izzaksdad]

Guys,

It has been widely suggested in the theological world, that Dr. Patterson led SEBTS to surpass Southern as the standard of a theological institution. Dr. Akin and Dr. Mohler are best of friends, and they both seem to always defer to the other. However, I believe we all can agree that Mohler is the sharper apologist, while Akin is the consumate theologian/preacher. In the ethics department and the missions department alone, SEBTS is superior to 99% of seminaries in the world.

I believe we would agree that SB and SE are in able hands now. SWBTS will rise to new heights as well in the next few years under Dr. Patterson.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Originally posted by izzaksdad:
Guys,

It has been widely suggested in the theological world, that Dr. Patterson led SEBTS to surpass Southern as the standard of a theological institution. Dr. Akin and Dr. Mohler are best of friends, and they both seem to always defer to the other. However, I believe we all can agree that Mohler is the sharper apologist, while Akin is the consumate theologian/preacher. In the ethics department and the missions department alone, SEBTS is superior to 99% of seminaries in the world.

I believe we would agree that SB and SE are in able hands now. SWBTS will rise to new heights as well in the next few years under Dr. Patterson.

I am not sure I agree with saying that SEBTS has risen to the level of Southern in any area. They are on the right track, but not sure they are there yet. Over the last year I did alot of research on both seminaries as I was contemplating where to go for my DMin and the overwhelming feeling from 90% of those I talked to suggested Southern was way ahead of any other SBC seminary and rivaled any seminary in the world.

 

[JGrayhound]

Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by izzaksdad:
Guys,

It has been widely suggested in the theological world, that Dr. Patterson led SEBTS to surpass Southern as the standard of a theological institution. Dr. Akin and Dr. Mohler are best of friends, and they both seem to always defer to the other. However, I believe we all can agree that Mohler is the sharper apologist, while Akin is the consumate theologian/preacher. In the ethics department and the missions department alone, SEBTS is superior to 99% of seminaries in the world.

I believe we would agree that SB and SE are in able hands now. SWBTS will rise to new heights as well in the next few years under Dr. Patterson.

I am not sure I agree with saying that SEBTS has risen to the level of Southern in any area. They are on the right track, but not sure they are there yet. Over the last year I did alot of research on both seminaries as I was contemplating where to go for my DMin and the overwhelming feeling from 90% of those I talked to suggested Southern was way ahead of any other SBC seminary and rivaled any seminary in the world. </font>[/QUOTE]I am gonna go with Pastor on this one.

Not sure who is "widely suggesting" this....I have never heard such talk. The "theological world" is a odd phrase, if you mean academia...then I think you are badly mistaken. Southern has far more academic credibility than S'Eastern. If you mean in popular opinion, again I think you'd be badly mistaken. Actually, I am not sure of anyone outside of the S'Eastern campus that thinks SEBTS is better than Southern.

SEBTS is a good school...but it is not anywhere near as good a school as Southern. In fact, I don't think there is a single area (not ethics or missions) that SEBTS is superior to Southern.

 

[izzaksdad]

We will agree to disagree on an unanswerable question. I would send my son to either Seminary-
no hesitation

 

[JGrayhound]

I don't think it is an unanswerable question.

 

[lilrabbi]

What do you guys think of Faith Baptist Seminary in Ankeny, IA?