Bethany Divinity College and Seminary

[Martin]

I fail to see the reason why Christian schools of higher learning want to know if a person has a criminal record. Frankly, I doubt that an individual that is an active criminal would be interested in a Bible education so he can be better used of the Lord. It makes no sense to me, especially (like I said) after 20 years.

==Most any school is going to ask about a criminal record. I don't think I have ever seen an application that failed to ask about it. Seminaries don't deny people admission because of their past but they do like to know who they are admitting into their school. Why? Because that person may graduate and go out as an alumni representing that school. The school wants to make sure that it's student body and alumni are good representatives of the school, the church, and Christ. There are also various legal issues that can come up if something happens while the student is enrolled in the school or if the school gives the student a referal or internship of some sort. So there are some very good reasons. If you are planning on entering the ministry you better accept the fact that you are going to be asked about your past, you are going to be asked to explain what happened, the outcome, and what you have been doing since. Many are probably going to want to see paperwork. Don't get offended when churches/ministries do this. It is nothing personal. They are protecting their church, and that is what they are suppose to do. While no system is fail proof it is best to do all one can to avoid problems.

As for schools, I would recommend Luther Rice, Liberty, or Temple Baptist.

 

[Martin]

I would not encourage you to attend Bethany. I've heard good things about Louisiana Baptist. Luther Rice, on the other hand, is accredited and widely accepted. If it costs a little more, go a little slower! Don't add any more regrets to you educational experience.

==I would second Bill's advice. Getting a good degree is worth a little extra money and time. I'm sure Luther Rice can work with you.

 

[Sportster]

==Most any school is going to ask about a criminal record. I don't think I have ever seen an application that failed to ask about it. Seminaries don't deny people admission because of their past but they do like to know who they are admitting into their school. Why? Because that person may graduate and go out as an alumni representing that school. The school wants to make sure that it's student body and alumni are good representatives of the school, the church, and Christ. There are also various legal issues that can come up if something happens while the student is enrolled in the school or if the school gives the student a referal or internship of some sort. So there are some very good reasons. If you are planning on entering the ministry you better accept the fact that you are going to be asked about your past, you are going to be asked to explain what happened, the outcome, and what you have been doing since. Many are probably going to want to see paperwork. Don't get offended when churches/ministries do this. It is nothing personal. They are protecting their church, and that is what they are suppose to do. While no system is fail proof it is best to do all one can to avoid problems.

As for schools, I would recommend Luther Rice, Liberty, or Temple Baptist.

I have to disagree with you, Martin. I have a Bob Jones University application in front of me as I type this and nowhere is there a question concerning criminal record. Pensacola Christian College did NOT want me because of my record.

As for churches, I have been denied office and even membership because of it. Time and time again I have been forced to “confess” even though my offense was confessed, forgiven, and washed by The Blood twenty years ago. Each of those organizations needs to remember what forgiveness is.

 

[Sportster]

Thanks for the input!

Thanks to all for the excellent input!!! I have eliminated Andersonville and Bethany from my choices. From what I’ve read, both would be a waste of time and money. I am not looking to earn a Doctorate, but I would like to be better equipped for whatever the Lord has in mind . . . home church or elsewhere.

I have catalogs from Bob Jones University, Luther Rice, and Louisiana Baptist University. BJU would be great, especially since my pastor and almost everyone at church is a graduate. However, unless the Lord moves mightily, I do not see myself attending there. The cost (fees, tuition, etc.) would be prohibitive. Furthermore, my age would be a hindrance for many of the programs and financial assistance. Still, God is in control, so I will not completely discount the possibility. One nice thing is a close personal friend is on the Board of Trustees, but I refuse to play that card . . . yet.

As it is, I’m leaning toward LBU. Luther Rice requires all fees to be paid up front, which I cannot do. Also, they do not offer the same course of study that I’m seeking as LBU. Rice is probably a better institute of higher learning, but I must consider all things (finances, curriculum, etc.) as I make a decision. The bottom line, though, is what the Lord’s will is. Thus far I do not feel led to act either way. Tomorrow He could return, or someone at church could offer to pay my way to BJU. Whatever the case, I will trust His leading and will act when He says it’s time.

 

[Broadus]

What do you mean that Luther Rice requires all fees to be paid up front? What fees are these?

Bill

 

[Paul1611]

What do you mean that Luther Rice requires all fees to be paid up front? What fees are these?

Bill

This was one reason that I too marked Luther Rice from my list. In their catalog it says "All tuition and fees are due payable at the time the student registers. Payments may be made by cash, check, or by Mastercard, Visa, or Discover card. Students should not send cash through the mail."
The only payment plan that I could see was a plan where you could break up the tuition into 2 monthly payments, paying half the tuition one month and then half the tuition the next month. Unfortunately for me I just couldnt afford $ 3500 -4000 up front, not to mention all the other fees and books that were going to be needed. Now if Luther Rice had a plan like Louisiana Baptist University or Columbia Evangelical Seminary, where you paid a certain amount down and then $100.00 per month I would be enrolled right now. But its like Robert said sometimes you have to take all things (finances, curriculum, etc.) into consideration, especially when you have a wife and 3 small children.

 

[Paul1611]

I also just noticed that Luther Rices tuition went up from $185.00 per credit hour to $199.00 per credit hour. This must have just changed, I know a few months ago when I was looking into Luther Rice it was $185.00.

 

[Martin]

I have to disagree with you, Martin. I have a Bob Jones University application in front of me as I type this and nowhere is there a question concerning criminal record. Pensacola Christian College did NOT want me because of my record.

==I have never seen applications from those two schools. I know that every application I have seen or filled out (seminary and secular grad school) asked about criminal background.

 

[Martin]

As it is, I’m leaning toward LBU. Luther Rice requires all fees to be paid up front, which I cannot do.

==Check out Temple Baptist Seminary. While their tution is more than Luther Rice they have payment plans that stretch from five months to ten months. Of course Temple Baptist Seminary is part of Tennessee Temple University.

http://www.templebaptistseminary.edu/

Since you are not planning to go on to a PhD/ThD/DMin program LBU would be a good choice.

 

[Broadus]

This was one reason that I too marked Luther Rice from my list. In their catalog it says "All tuition and fees are due payable at the time the student registers. Payments may be made by cash, check, or by Mastercard, Visa, or Discover card. Students should not send cash through the mail."
The only payment plan that I could see was a plan where you could break up the tuition into 2 monthly payments, paying half the tuition one month and then half the tuition the next month. Unfortunately for me I just couldnt afford $ 3500 -4000 up front, not to mention all the other fees and books that were going to be needed. Now if Luther Rice had a plan like Louisiana Baptist University or Columbia Evangelical Seminary, where you paid a certain amount down and then $100.00 per month I would be enrolled right now. But its like Robert said sometimes you have to take all things (finances, curriculum, etc.) into consideration, especially when you have a wife and 3 small children.

I suspect that the tuition that is paid is per course, and a person generally takes one course at a time, and that cost, the total tuition for the course, can be broken into a couple of payments. At least that's the way it was when I attended Luther Rice many moons ago. Has there been a drastic change in the past 15 years?

That said, you would be looking at about $600 for a three-hour course, not a little chunk of change, to be sure. Also, financial aid can be applied for.

I cannot imagine that a person has to lay out $3500-$4000 up front. Check w/Luther Rice before you check them off your list.

One last word, if I may. Be careful about cut-rate theological education. I've long heard fellows tell me what they couldn't afford in the way of formal education, and yet they take vacations which I couldn't afford, buy autos and pickups I couldn't afford, and buy houses I couldn't afford. Usually, we can afford what think is a priority.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Sportster]

==I have never seen applications from those two schools. I know that every application I have seen or filled out (seminary and secular grad school) asked about criminal background.

Yeah, I was a bit surprised that BJU didn't ask about any criminal record. I'm also surprised that LBU didn't ask since they sent me their catalog and application (evaluation) form. Both schools ask for several personal references, so perhaps they rely on those more than what some public records might say.

 

[Sportster]

==Check out Temple Baptist Seminary. While their tution is more than Luther Rice they have payment plans that stretch from five months to ten months. Of course Temple Baptist Seminary is part of Tennessee Temple University.

http://www.templebaptistseminary.edu/

Since you are not planning to go on to a PhD/ThD/DMin program LBU would be a good choice.

Thanks for the idea of Temple Baptist Seminary. I’m downloading (have to love dial-up, ugh!) their catalog as I type this. I spoke with my pastor this morning about what’s going on and he told me to stay away from Bethany and Andersonville. His only concern about LBU is they are Southern Baptist, but he didn’t see anything wrong with them. He recommended Rice, but understands why it would be difficult for me financially. His choice would be BJU, but again he understands the financial issues. As it is, I’m leaning heavily toward LBU, but I won’t make a final decision until I look at all possibilities and get the “OK” from the Lord.

 

[UZThD]

LBU is Southern Baptist??

 

[Heavenhlpr]

No. They are a BBFI approved school. http://www.bbfi.org/colleges.htm

 

[Ehud]

What it's worth.

For what it's worth do not choose a school that causes you to doubt the Bible.
The foundation for all we do is the Bible. Ask the College what Bible they use and what Greek text do they use. You do not want a school that questions the authority of God's preserved word. You might get a great degree but lose your confidence in God's word. There are many schools out there that will rob you of God's word. Meaning they do not believe the Bible that you hold in your hand is 100% God's word.
RUN from these places no matter how prestigious they look thy will take your money and your Bible at the same time.
Who cares if you have a PHD from a great school, but have no Bible in your hands.


Ehud

 

[UZThD]

For what it's worth do not choose a school that causes you to doubt the Bible.... You might get a great degree but lose your confidence in God's word. There are many schools out there that will rob you of God's word. Meaning they do not believe the Bible that you hold in your hand is 100% God's word.
RUN from these places no matter how prestigious they look ....
Who cares if you have a PHD from a great school, but have no Bible in your hands.


Ehud

=======

Probably if one wishes to teach from a KJV only view, one should go to a school which adheres to that, but it is not my experience that schools try to change a student's views.

1- Though a Protestant, for teacher training, I was taught by nuns and Catholic lay persons at the Univ of San Diego

2- Though a Christian, for more teacher training I was taught by those who never in class confessed Christ at Oregon State

3- Though I am a Calvinist and a Baptist, my MA in Religion is from a Nazarene univ in which every word (in translation) of Arminius was read

4- Though a shaky post tribber, my ThM is from a pretrib school. In fact in a school like Western, the issue of textual criticism probably would only much be discussed in an exegesis course.

5- Though a Christological Antiochene among probably those of Cyrillian Christology, my doctoral committe put no pressure on me to modify my views.

6- Though I deny the eternal generation and relational subordination of God the Son , I regularly discuss these issues with a well-known author and prof of an accredited seminary who asserts those views and I find that iron sharpens iron

IM0, the purpose of higher Christian learning is not to indoctrinate the student or to change his views, but to enable the student to know the questions and to work better to answer them. If one finds that questioning and working for answers something fearful, then, yes, it might be better to seek a school that exists only to preserve intact all one's presumptions. But that may not be "learning."

I do like the practice of doing undergrad work in a school that supports your beliefs, but think that less necessary in grad work.

 

[Broadus]

=======

Probably if one wishes to teach from a KJV only view, one should go to a school which adheres to that, but it is not my experience that schools try to change a student's views.

1- Though a Protestant, for teacher training, I was taught by nuns and Catholic lay persons at the Univ of San Diego

2- Though a Christian, for more teacher training I was taught by those who never in class confessed Christ at Oregon State

3- Though I am a Calvinist and a Baptist, my MA in Religion is from a Nazarene univ in which every word (in translation) of Arminius was read

4- Though a shaky post tribber, my ThM is from a pretrib school

5- Though a Christological Antiochene among probably those of Cyrillian Christology, my doctoral committe put no pressure on me to modify my views.

6- Though I deny the eternal generation and relational subordination of God the Son , I regularly discuss that with a prof of an accredited seminary who asserts those views

IM0, the purpose of higher Christian education is not to indoctrinate the student or to change his views, but to enable the student to know the questions and to work better to answer them. If one finds that fearful, then, yes, it might be better to seek a school that exists only to preserve intact all your presumptions.

Well put. I suspect that a lot of folks who "lose their faith" when they go to a university or liberal seminary did not have much faith to begin with. They may have joined a religious "cause" or had an emotional experience during a time of personal distress or simply been in church because there were clean-cut people having a good time. Having to answer tough questions has strengthened my faith, not torn it down.

Bill

 

[spartacus]

I am considering Bethany. I have an AA, BA, & MA from ATS accredited schools. Why do people speak badly of Bethany? Is it because the are unaccredited. I have had courses in ATS classes that was just ridiculous.

Maybe we ought to compare secular universities standards to that of seminaries. From what I have seen and those I have talked to, it seems that secular Universities require more in the master and doctoral levels than do the ATS schools.

Has anyone taken courses from Bethany who has spoken ill of them comment first hand on the lack of quality? I have seen many post regarding Bethany but those who have gone there seem to think that it is a quality education.

:BangHead:

 

[Broadus]

I am considering Bethany. I have an AA, BA, & MA from ATS accredited schools. Why do people speak badly of Bethany? Is it because the are unaccredited. I have had courses in ATS classes that was just ridiculous.

Maybe we ought to compare secular universities standards to that of seminaries. From what I have seen and those I have talked to, it seems that secular Universities require more in the master and doctoral levels than do the ATS schools.

I am considering Bethany. I have an AA, BA, & MA from ATS accredited schools. Why do people speak badly of Bethany? Is it because the are unaccredited. I have had courses in ATS classes that was just ridiculous.

:BangHead:

What ATS schools did you receive your degrees from? The reason I ask is that I understood ATS to accredit graduate offerings of theological seminaries, not associate and bachelor degrees. From the ATS website this paragraph is posted: "The Association of Theological Schools in the United States and Canada (ATS) is a membership organization of more than 250 graduate schools that conduct post-baccalaureate professional and academic degree programs to educate persons for the practice of ministry and for teaching and research in the theological disciplines. The Commission on Accrediting of ATS accredits the schools and approves the degree programs they offer."

I recognize that some seminaries, such as SBTS, have colleges with undergrad programs, but those schools are accredited regionally, not by ATS.

Now, I have had a master's course or two that was less than impressive. On the whole, though, it was quite rigorous.

It is illogical, however, to say that you have to have attended a school to be able to assess its credibility. Check out the requirements and the training of the faculty. For instance, can you earn a PhD at Bethany without having had Greek and Hebrew?

The kick against Bethany is not that they are not accredited. It is that a perusal of their requirements and training of their faculty leave a lot to be desired.

If a person wants a solid evangelical distance education from a non-accredited school, he should check out Whitefield Theological Seminary. Compare and contrast its requirements and members of the faculty with those of Bethany. The difference should be evident.

I trust the Lord's guidance in your search for formal theological education.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[spartacus]

My AA was from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Boyce was a school of the seminary before it became a college. My BA was in the same kind of thing. I took modular courses through the seminary and applied them to my undergrad. My MA was from Briercrest Seminary in Leadership & Management in Organizational Leadership which is a seminary exclusively modular.

I have not been impressed with the ATS process in granting status. Before I went to Briercrest the ATS were not prepared to grant status because nobody was modulating all the courses. I have talk to a couple of former ATS board members and they concur with the exclusiveness they operate. The other issue is that when Briercrest received ATS status their tuition has increased steadily. It was up to $750 a course and now is over $800 before books. This is ridiculous.

I interviewed at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary for their Doctor in Educational Ministry. I was told that the D.ED.Min was equivalent to the DMin. Now think about this. The DMin requires languages and 30 hours more and is more credited hrs. How is this new Doctorate possibly the equivalent.

The dean told me that the SBTS needed to something for those with MA in education and that there wasn't a Doctorate for them so they designed this D.Ed.Min. Anyone with any sense who is familiar with education can't help but see the continuous contradictions from institution to institution.

Further more, there exist in the library of SBTS a DMin grads dissertation which counts on 80 pages. Now people say that SBTS is a top school and I would agree but my master's research project was almost as long. Bethany told me they requires 200 pgs. So, my point is that this accreditation stuff is really for a time long gone by and is so behind the times they are virtually straining their member schools.

Anyway, I have very intelligent people with unaccredited doctorates and I have met not so smart Drs with accredited degrees and wonder how in the world they ever got through their discipline. :saint: