Bethany Divinity College and Seminary

[StefanM]

ATS and TRACS only schools are fine for ministers but they are not fine for students seeking an academic career. Those folks need RA degrees.

Rare is the ATS-only school. I think you could probably count them on one hand and have some fingers left.

 

[PilgrimPastor]

I have run into that as well over the years. The funny part about it, ok the sad part about it, is that many secular universities/colleges will not honor degrees/credits from ATS accredited schools (that don't also hold RA). Secular universities usually want RA for purposes of employment and many times for the purpose of further education. The school I am finishing my MA/History degree at holds this policy. I was talking with the chair of the history department a few months ago and he was telling me about students coming from Bible Colleges/Seminaries who wanted to get a MA/History, an MAT in Social Studies, or just licensure. The problem, however, is that many of the Bible Colleges/Seminaries these students are coming from either are not accredited at all or are accredited by agencies that are not regional. He, the chair, said he felt bad about turning them away but that he had to do it all the time. He even told me about a lady who has been forced to start from scratch because she earned a BA from a unaccredited religious school and needed an accredited degree to enter into the graduate program. The Univeristy did accept my MA from Liberty, as the North Carolina Community College system has, but only because it is RA.

So what I say is that if you might want to further your education at a secular school (teaching licensure, another degree, etc) you need to get your degrees from RA schools only. The same is true for those who wish to teach.

ATS and TRACS only schools are fine for ministers but they are not fine for students seeking an academic career. Those folks need RA degrees.

Those are great points. It is important to give a lot of thought to what you want to do with your degree; you may end up in a position of having worked really hard and not having what you need to accomplish your goals / calling.

 

[TCGreek]

ATS and TRACS only schools are fine for ministers but they are not fine for students seeking an academic career. Those folks need RA degrees.

I rest my case. If you missed this, please, reread. :thumbs:

 

[TCGreek]

I sure hope that Mr. Clifton doesn't think that a PhD from Bethany is comparable to a PhD from SBTS.

 

[PilgrimPastor]

I sure hope that Mr. Clifton doesn't think that a PhD from Bethany is comparable to a PhD from SBTS.

Comments like this are difficult for me to digest. What seems to be implied, as a degree does not stand alone but is held by an individual, is that a person with a Ph.D. from Bethany does not compare with a person with a Ph.D. from SBTS...

 

[Brandon C. Jones]

Hello Pilgrim,

Let me welcome you here. You will find that there are quite a few regulars in this section of the board who have encountered the topic of the accreditation numerous times over the years (I'm not among them just to let you know because I am just a student). Many are involved or have been involved in schools and have helpful advice and thoughts.

I have lurked on this thread, and I will give my brief opinion. Why do schools like Bethany insist on offering degrees like a Ph.D. without seeking the proper accreditation for them? One's Ph.D. from Bethany would most likely not allow her to hold a faculty position almost anywhere.

If the education they offer is for ministers whose credentials to preach do not really depend on formal education, then why not be an institute and issue certificates for completing courses instead of granting degrees with a mixture of coursework and "life experience?" The result is that someone earns a degree based on different standards than most everyone else. The justification for this that the unaccredited degree is fine and its the standards that are questionable just sounds like special pleading. There is also the argument that the accrediting agencies and their standards are not befitting a school that is faithful to Scripture, but this just doesn't fit reality. I know there are exceptions like BJU, but they just prove the rule in my opinion.

I encourage those in the ministry to carry on their education whether it be through an old-fashioned D.Min, a distance ed. Master's program, an online institute like the theology program or something like that, or even self-study with no formal body involved. But when people choose to use these unaccredited or defeciently accredited places (especially ones that involve "life experience") that offer degrees, I wonder at the motivation. Is the goal knowledge or initials at the end of one's name? I'm not indicting people here or anywhere, but I do wonder about this.

 

[Jimmy Clifton]

My "issue" has nothing to do with cost. It has to do with quality. Many "unaccredited" schools such as Covington or Andersonville simply don't require the level of work that should be required for a Thd or PhD. There are, of course, many exceptions to that. Bob Jones University was one of those exceptions before gaining accreditation. I also warn people about earning unaccredited graduate degrees because most universities/seminaries will not acknowledge such degrees for further educational purposes or for employment purposes. However, at the end of the day, each person has to make their own decisions about these matters. I try to never discourage a person who is earning a degree from a school I don't think highly of. So while I have come out, on this board, "hard" against certain schools it should be noted that if I am talking with someone who is working at Andersonville (etc) I wish them well in their studies. My former pastor got his degrees from Covington and he was one of the best pastors I have ever had.

Thank you for a reasonable, objective post.

 

[Jimmy Clifton]

Comments like this are difficult for me to digest. What seems to be implied, as a degree does not stand alone but is held by an individual, is that a person with a Ph.D. from Bethany does not compare with a person with a Ph.D. from SBTS...

Thank you.

 

[Jimmy Clifton]

I sure hope that Mr. Clifton doesn't think that a PhD from Bethany is comparable to a PhD from SBTS.

Nor do I think a SBTS PhD is comparable to a Harvard or Yale or Princeton PhD.

 

[TCGreek]

Comments like this are difficult for me to digest. What seems to be implied, as a degree does not stand alone but is held by an individual, is that a person with a Ph.D. from Bethany does not compare with a person with a Ph.D. from SBTS...

Welcome to BB, PilgrimPastor,

Please reread my post.

I'm in no way referring to a person.

My post is only difficult for you to digest because you assumed to worst of it.

In the future, it would be a good idea to ask for clarification.

God bless.

 

[TCGreek]

Nor do I think a SBTS PhD is comparable to a Harvard or Yale or Princeton PhD.

I'll let you figure that one out. :thumbs:

 

[Jimmy Clifton]

I'll let you figure that one out. :thumbs:

Oh, that's okay, I have more important things in life to do than play "My daddy can beat up your daddy".

Your degrees work for you and mine work for me, my brother.

 

[PilgrimPastor]

Welcome to BB, PilgrimPastor,

Please reread my post.

I'm in no way referring to a person.

My post is only difficult for you to digest because you assumed to worst of it.

In the future, it would be a good idea to ask for clarification.

God bless.

I'm not trying to mis-characterize you at all! I was just thinking out loud and referring more to a way of thinking not necessarily your intentions to slander an individual. This is unfortunately one of many conversations I have had on this subject and it always seems that those with the "higher degrees" (I guess could be me with my degrees from Liberty... hmmm...) condesend to folks with "lesser"degrees. I'm speaking more to a spirit of scholastic pride that is I think pervasive in many corners of the church. Thanks!

:wavey:

 

[exscentric]

"condesend to folks with "lesser"degrees. I'm speaking more to a spirit of scholastic pride that is I think pervasive in many corners of the church."

Sadly I think this is quite true, however I've seen the other side - those with little education or three year diplomas that look up their noses at those with degrees :laugh:

If God is leading His called ones to His preparation who is to stick a nose into His business - of course I know some that suggest that God would never lead anyone to a degree that was not top notch :thumbs:

Kind of wonder if the Lord doesn't feel like :BangHead: at the way we humans operate.

 

[hawg_427]

I will ask my friends. Everyone around here seems to go to the Graceville Baptist College in Graceville,Fl. which is approx. 25 min South of Dothan,Al. I will post answers ASAP.

 

[TCGreek]

I'm not trying to mis-characterize you at all! I was just thinking out loud and referring more to a way of thinking not necessarily your intentions to slander an individual. This is unfortunately one of many conversations I have had on this subject and it always seems that those with the "higher degrees" (I guess could be me with my degrees from Liberty... hmmm...) condesend to folks with "lesser"degrees. I'm speaking more to a spirit of scholastic pride that is I think pervasive in many corners of the church. Thanks!

:wavey:

PilgrimPastor, I have pastor friends who have degrees from UA schools, and do I look at them in a condescending way? Absolutely not!

It is called putting things into proper perspective.

Guys on this Board with accredited doctorates teach at one UA school that I'm aware of.

If you do not see this as putting things into proper perspective, then I don't know what else to say.

 

[Jimmy Clifton]

I will ask my friends. Everyone around here seems to go to the Graceville Baptist College in Graceville,Fl. which is approx. 25 min South of Dothan,Al. I will post answers ASAP.

Never heard of Graceville Baptist College but have heard of the Baptist College of Florida in Graceville.

 

[PilgrimPastor]

PilgrimPastor, I have pastor friends who have degrees from UA schools, and do I look at them in a condescending way? Absolutely not!

It is called putting things into proper perspective.

Guys on this Board with accredited doctorates teach at one UA school that I'm aware of.

If you do not see this as putting things into proper perspective, then I don't know what else to say.

I think we agree and are talking around one another in many ways. :BangHead: (I wish I had one of those emoticons for the pulpit somehow!) there has been enough said on this subject as far as I am concerned. I look forward to seeing you around the board more

 

[hawg_427]

Hi Sporster,

I checked with my friend and he has never heard of the school. I would go with the likes of Liberty or a big name school like that. My Pastor is doing distance learning from Liberty. Another Brother I know is going to the Bible College in Graceville,Fl. It is the best one around here.

In Christ,
Hawg427

 

[paidagogos]

Nor do I think a SBTS PhD is comparable to a Harvard or Yale or Princeton PhD.

From a Biblical viewpoint, the SBTS Ph.D. is probably superior. What do you think?