Beware these movements in the church

[Amy.G]

The finer points of theoloy, I say.

I don't understand your comment.

 

[TCGreek]

I don't understand your comment.

Baptists didn't like their name "Baptists" at first, for they were called "Baptists" because they believed in believers' baptism as immersion, not pouring or sprinkling.

I was not until later did they assembled something like a confession.

Baptists have no copyright.

 

[Amy.G]

Baptists didn't like their name "Baptists" at first, for they were called "Baptists" because they believed in believers' baptism as immersion, not pouring or sprinkling.

I was not until later did they assembled something like a confession.

Baptists have no copyright.

The OP had nothing to do with Baptists. I don't know why you bring that up.

The list contains false teachings. I have also done research on the things Marcia listed because I have family members who are caught up in some of it. And being a Baptist had nothing to do with my conclusions.

 

[TCGreek]

The OP had nothing to do with Baptists. I don't know why you bring that up.

The list contains false teachings. I have also done research on the things Marcia listed because I have family members who are caught up in some of it. And being a Baptist had nothing to do with my conclusions.

The list catalogs a bunch of charismatic pentecostals and not much to do with false teachings.

 

[Amy.G]

The list catalogs a bunch of charismatic pentecostals and not much to do with false teachings.

I would say that you need to research what they teach.

 

[TCGreek]

I would say that you need to research what they teach.

Amy, there's no doubt in my mind that some of their conclusions are clearly false.

There are Baptists who believe Baptists who are Calvinists are false teachers because of their calvinism.

 

[InChrist]

So what is false about being charismatic?

What is false about being Amil or Postmil?

The main reason I would consider these teachings to be false is as I stated before; they lump Israel and the Church together.

Here are some main points of this doctrine (especially as per the Kingdom Now and Restoration branches but I think could also be true of Amil / Postmil) to consider as being false as I see it:

1. It requires a universal Kingdom of God on earth, where Christians in the place of Christ, enforce and submit humanity to the laws of God prior to the return of the Lord. This is false because it is Jesus Christ Himself who returns and enforces His Laws in the land.

2. It takes the promises of God to Israel, and her inheritance, and places them upon the Church. They say that because of Israel's disobedience and rejection of her Messiah, that she has no place in God's future economy. This is false because it makes God a liar and a breaker of His Covenant to His people. If the Church wants to take Israel's blessings, then she must also take her curses!

3. It takes away from the return of the Lord, because instead of having there eyes on things above, they are focused on things below. Earthly treasures such as material wealth, health and blessings are expected (and demanded!) rather than the future heavenly blessings in Christ Jesus. Their focus is on bettering the Kingdom. The Christian hope and trust is supposed to be in the Lord and his Return, not in ourselves and in our own efforts to "save the planet".

4. It requires religious unity, because the only way that peace will ever be on earth without the return of Christ is if all people of all religions came into agreement. This is false simply because it is just plain ludicrous to think that would EVER come to this position without Christ (UNLESS truth is taken out of the way). Its catch cry is "Unity with Tolerance of Diversity". (the only thing that WILL NOT be tolerated among world religions is that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way the ONLY truth and the ONLY life... so again, the gospel truth would have to be watered down)

5. It replaces Jesus Christ with the Church. The focus is on the Church and her works rather than Christ and the finished work. It states that the Church will present herself spotless and without blemish, rather than Christ presenting the Church to HIMSELF without spot or blemish.

 

[Marcia]

I'm a Southern Baptist ordained Pastor.

I'm not one to point fingers.

Baptists have no copyright on truth and salvation.

Btw, there are all stripes of baptists out there.

Some baptists think baptists who are calvinists are false teachers.

This is not about being Baptist. It's about those who teach against Christian doctrine but still call themselves Christian.

The groups listed are cultic; they are not orthodox.

(Only one of my 6 supporting churches is Baptist, and I've spoken in Lutheran, Methodist, Bible, Assembly of God, Charismatic Episciopalian, Episcopalian, and other churches. This has nothing to do with Baptist and non-Baptist - why do you assume that??)

 

[TCGreek]

The main reason I would consider these teachings to be false is as I stated before; they lump Israel and the Church together.

Here are some main points of this doctrine (especially as per the Kingdom Now and Restoration branches but I think could also be true of Amil / Postmil) to consider as being false as I see it:

1. It requires a universal Kingdom of God on earth, where Christians in the place of Christ, enforce and submit humanity to the laws of God prior to the return of the Lord. This is false because it is Jesus Christ Himself who returns and enforces His Laws in the land.

2. It takes the promises of God to Israel, and her inheritance, and places them upon the Church. They say that because of Israel's disobedience and rejection of her Messiah, that she has no place in God's future economy. This is false because it makes God a liar and a breaker of His Covenant to His people. If the Church wants to take Israel's blessings, then she must also take her curses!

3. It takes away from the return of the Lord, because instead of having there eyes on things above, they are focused on things below. Earthly treasures such as material wealth, health and blessings are expected (and demanded!) rather than the future heavenly blessings in Christ Jesus. Their focus is on bettering the Kingdom. The Christian hope and trust is supposed to be in the Lord and his Return, not in ourselves and in our own efforts to "save the planet".

4. It requires religious unity, because the only way that peace will ever be on earth without the return of Christ is if all people of all religions came into agreement. This is false simply because it is just plain ludicrous to think that would EVER come to this position without Christ (UNLESS truth is taken out of the way). Its catch cry is "Unity with Tolerance of Diversity". (the only thing that WILL NOT be tolerated among world religions is that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way the ONLY truth and the ONLY life... so again, the gospel truth would have to be watered down)

5. It replaces Jesus Christ with the Church. The focus is on the Church and her works rather than Christ and the finished work. It states that the Church will present herself spotless and without blemish, rather than Christ presenting the Church to HIMSELF without spot or blemish.

Here's a quote from the Baptist Faith and Message (2000) on Last Things:

"God, in His own time and in His own way, will bring the world to its appropriate end. According to His promise, Jesus Christ will return personally and visibly in glory to the earth; the dead will be raised; and Christ will judge all men in righteousness. The unrighteous will be consigned to Hell, the place of everlasting punishment. The righteous in their resurrected and glorified bodies will receive their reward and will dwell forever in Heaven with the Lord."

I love it!

So we have Amils, Postmils, Premils (Historic and Dispensational).

A denial of the second coming of Christ is what the Bible has problems with, not a person's position on the Millennial Kingdom.

 

[TCGreek]

This is not about being Baptist. It's about those who teach against Christian doctrine but still call themselves Christian.

The groups listed are cultic; they are not orthodox.

(Only one of my 6 supporting churches is Baptist, and I've spoken in Lutheran, Methodist, Bible, Assembly of God, Charismatic Episciopalian, Episcopalian, and other churches. This has nothing to do with Baptist and non-Baptist - why do you assume that??)

Maybe you should put a few Baptists on your list.

 

[Marcia]

The list catalogs a bunch of charismatic pentecostals and not much to do with false teachings.

I'm sorry, sir, you are wrong. These are not charismatic pentecostals. They are teaching cultic doctrines. This has nothing to do with the pentecostal faith.

You seem to be unaware of some blatant false teachings that are influencing the flock. That is why I posted this.

I listed some of their beliefs and some are in the OP. You seem to be ignoring this. Why?

 

[Marcia]

Maybe you should put a few Baptists on your list.

This makes no sense at all.It almost doesn't merit a response. You are ignoring my point.

I did not make this list. I posted it from a resource that has info on these particular groups which are influencing the church.

 

[TCGreek]

I'm sorry, sir, you are wrong. These are not charismatic pentecostals. They are teaching cultic doctrines. This has nothing to do with the pentecostal faith.

You seem to be unaware of some blatant false teachings that are influencing the flock. That is why I posted this.

I listed some of their beliefs and some are in the OP. You seem to be ignoring this. Why?

This makes no sense.

That's what they call themselves.

Now if you want to rename them, then that is your problem.

 

[Marcia]

This makes no sense.

That's what they call themselves.

Now if you want to rename them, then that is your problem.

I don't get it. I posted a link to info on some groups that are influencing the church with false teachings and you are criticizing me for it, and making some kind of strange point about why I don't list a Baptist group.

You are totally ignoring the point of the OP. If you think this is a waste of time, then go to another thread.

 

[TCGreek]

I don't get it. I posted a link to info on some groups that are influencing the church with false teachings and you are criticizing me for it, and making some kind of strange point about why I don't list a Baptist group.

You are totally ignoring the point of the OP. If you think this is a waste of time, then go to another thread.

Yes, I'll take your advice. Thanks.

 

[InChrist]

Here's a quote from the Baptist Faith and Message (2000) on Last Things:

"God, in His own time and in His own way, will bring the world to its appropriate end. According to His promise, Jesus Christ will return personally and visibly in glory to the earth; the dead will be raised; and Christ will judge all men in righteousness. The unrighteous will be consigned to Hell, the place of everlasting punishment. The righteous in their resurrected and glorified bodies will receive their reward and will dwell forever in Heaven with the Lord."

I love it!

So we have Amils, Postmils, Premils (Historic and Dispensational).

A denial of the second coming of Christ is what the Bible has problems with, not a person's position on the Millennial Kingdom.

The Baptists don't have everything right all the time.

I believe it is the downfall of the Church, no matter the denomination, that doctrinal stances on matters such as Amil / Postmil / Premil have been considered as non important. In the 60's & 70's when Kingdom Now / Restoration / Emerging Church doctrine was little known about, this lack of understanding could perhaps be understood, but when we can see the state that the professing church is in now, this ignorance is a little less forgiveable.

People are swarming to "mega churches", where preachers are preaching social gospel messages (you know... the kind that tickle the ears), and people are believing a different gospel then the one first delivered, believing in a different Jesus than the Jesus of the Bible, believing that the Christian life is all about what man can do for God, rather than what God does for man, demanding their "rights" to all the earthly blessings of Israel, and attempting to work their way into their own earthly "kingdom". Sure, they use a lot of the same biblical language... they talk of salvation, the cross, Jesus Christ, the rapture, the Tribulation, the Millennial Kingdom, etc, but their definitions of those terms are far, far different than their biblically known definitions. Its the blind leading the blind.

God gave us His doctrine. He gave us His Word. I think that it does matter to Him how we view the nation of Israel, how we view His Second Coming, and how we view His rule and reign here on the earth. Why? Because it affects how we operate as His Body here on earth while we await His Coming. He wants us to view it how HE views it, because that is the TRUTH. I'm not claiming that I understand it all entirely, but I do know that what we believe to be truth about doctrine IS important.