Bible Codes - and prophecy

[BobRyan]

Marcia -

You make a good point and you may well be right in applying it as you do to this case.

On the other hand - in John 4 Christ uses the interesting "opener" with the woman at the well of talking about water that will suffice so that she would never thirst again. (Which in some circles sounds like a wealth and prosperity tag line). But if you look closer at what He is saying you see that it is not physical water - but spiritual water of life through the Holy Spirit and the Word. A well spring of life springing up from within.

I doubt that this is what caught the womans' insterest at the start. She was probably thinking of something much more temporal.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by music4Him:
Bob you mentioned in one of the questions about the math to back it up? Also I notice that what I have see on TV when people work the code it has to do with counting so many letters ect to get the info..is this right?
Ya'll please bare with me because I'm not a wiz when it comes to physic stuff....but I do remember a old "I Love Lucy" episode to where she was using horoscopes and numeroligy(sp?). So trying to work a code (to me) would be like numeroligy(sp?).

Theres a BB member who might know more about this because in some of the post I have read about her testimony.

The statistical science that is used for the Bible Code has to do with randomization techniques. The proof was published in statistical science (not based on the Bible) and was peer-reviewed to show that it had statitical validity.

The "proof" consisted of showing that the ELS system was a valid way to randomize any text (Bible or not).

I know some people like this - and others oppose it. I am just wondering if any oppose it based on math.

However the link given to the March 4 "Prophecy Code" does not actually cover the topic of the "Bible Code" rather - it just covers prophecy and what various prophecies mean.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by donnA:
I wouldn't think it ever a good idea ofr a church to use secular athiestic material for study, unless your studying the untruths as untriths and why they are not true to keep your members from falling for it all.

Good point.

I gave 3 links. One to the Bible Code, one to a site that discusses the Da Vinci Code and one to the March 4 prophecy series. That last link uses a title that is "somewhat similar" to the other links. I did not mean to convey the idea that it too is covering topics on the Bible Code or the Da Vinci Code, just that it "Sounds" like it in name.

You can check my statement out at that link if you prefer.

"Prophecy Code: Bible Secrets Unlocked" http://www.prophecycode.org/

I went there and looked at the subjects covered and none of them appeared to be about anything other than classic topics and methods of understanding Prophecy about the end of the world.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Marcia -

You make a good point and you may well be right in applying it as you do to this case.

On the other hand - in John 4 Christ uses the interesting "opener" with the woman at the well of talking about water that will suffice so that she would never thirst again. (Which in some circles sounds like a wealth and prosperity tag line). But if you look closer at what He is saying you see that it is not physical water - but spiritual water of life through the Holy Spirit and the Word. A well spring of life springing up from within.

I doubt that this is what caught the womans' insterest at the start. She was probably thinking of something much more temporal.

In Christ,

Bob

Well, that's an interesting point that you make. I thought about it. I think the difference is that Jesus was not misleading the woman by seeming to endorse anything evil, whereas I think using the term "prophecy code," if it's being used because of the hoopla about Bible codes and the Da Vinci Code, is misleading.

 

[robycop3]

Someone once made a computer prog in German to search for codes in Mein Kampf. They found the title God and the name Jesus appearing more times than they do in the Torah.

I suppose someone could apply such a prog to any issue of Hustler & come up with similar results. Along with numerology, this 'codes' thingy is a crock.

 

[BobRyan]

Is that a math base treatement of the subject?

In the peer-reviewed statistics "proof" used in the popular Bible Codes material (ELS) the point was stated at the outset that finding 2 or more co-related words on a single grid was NOT an indicator of success.

Now if you had taken the more objective approach and said that given the same set of target words (the names of all major Rabbis in Judaism in the past 1500 years) then BOTH Mein Kampf and the Torah result in the SAME (relatively the same) level of completeness in terms of information using relatively LOW sequence skip levels -- THEN you would have an objective counter point.

I am not arguing that this can not be done. I am just calling for a level of objectivity.

Having said that - the point of the OP was not to defend or promote the Bible Codes project. It was to ask if the "Prophecy Code" series at the end has a title that is "too close" to the "Bible Codes" and would not be helpful.

Some have said that they think it is too close.

In Christ,

Bob

[ February 19, 2005, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]

 

[robycop3]

I'm merely making the point that anyone who can program a PC to search for certain words in any given language, made from the sequence of letters within that work can take any given work in that language, & find what they're looking for. There's not one hint in Scripture that it contains any hidden codes that would lie undiscovered until the general time of the end.

Prophecy is almost all LITERAL. Some is more specific than other, but what HAS come to pass so far has been AS IT WAS WRITTEN. The nation of Judah is re-established. Ashdod is, in the Philistines' eyes, inhabited by a foreign people.(Jews) The site of Tyre is now a place where fishermen spread their nets. Travel & knowledge is vastly increased.

I can go on & on with literal fulfillment of prophecy, but this should suffice for this post. I simply DO NOT BELIEVE any of these "Bible codes" nor "prophecy codes".

 

[BobRyan]

I agree with your point about prophecy which is why I am asking if the title for that series appears "too similar" to the entirely "different" idea of the Bible code.

However for clarity the statistical proof given for the Bible Code project is based on removing letters on fixed intervals and it claims that the smaller the intervale the more unnexpected the correlated grids are. It further specifies that simply finding a singe grid that has two related facts some place - is not really "proof" of encoding.

Hence the difference it makes between finding the names and places and birth years of all the well known Rabbis in a 500 year window - - and simply "finding one".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[robycop3]

I would venture to say that the fewer letters or words the language has, the mathematical chances of finding a pattern within any given writing within that languages rise considerably, as it does for a larger work vs a smaller work.

As for the title of the study, I don't care for it. It implies both that such codes are real, and that the Bible contains secrets that only a chosen few can unlock. Maybe a title such as "Opening Doors To The Understanding Of Prophecy" would be more appropriate.

 

[BobRyan]

That is not the statistical argument. The argument from the "hard science" of statistics is that the lower the skip sequence - the more "improbable" the occurance of corelated terms.

So take a large document (many words - 25-35 letters in the lanaguage etc) and use a skip sequence of (take every 3rd or 4th letter for example) then arrange them in a grid and see what you get.

Something along those lines. The peer reviewed "mathematical proof" is published in the appendix of the book Bible Code.

However - just to clarify - this is not intended as support for - or a defense of that book. I am just clarifying "what it is".

And your POV that the title is too close to the title of the Bible Codes book - is duely noted.

Thank you for sharing your views on this.

In Christ,

Bob