Bible Modesty - Part 1

Bible Modesty Part II :tongue3:
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1 Corinthians 8:9-13 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

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SBC --- now you know your wife looks better in that size 6 skirt than you do!!!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

Amen to that!

 

Except it won't be part 2, it will be something like part 102. And I can guarantee it will come around....sooner or later....:tonofbricks:

 

For you, a special deal. You give us money; we give you car!:smilewinkgrin:

I'm glad you've seen the light. Now you can drink deeply from the fountains of wisdom on this thread! :thumbs:

:BangHead:

Hey, it's not like it could be worse!

 

Some good points Scarlett. It points to our bias based on ethnocentrism. "Our society is best simply because it is our society...And the whole world revolves around it." Almost every one in the world thinks that way.
The Romans in Christ's time wore togas. I almost choked on the cup of tea I was drinking imagining all the men on this board showing up in the morning service wearing a toga. Wouldn't that cause an uproar!
Dress is definitely tied to the society in which you live. And as much as people try to read into the Scripture their own preconceived ideas of "breeches" pertaining to blue jeans for men, and other such things, they are not rightly dividing the word of truth. The fact is that the Hebrews had a different dress in the Old Testament, and I would dare the men of this board to research carefully the topic and then show up on Sunday morning dressed like one of the OT Hebrew men, Moses perhaps--as he was dressed in the wilderness.
How about John the Baptist preaching a message of repentance? His clothing style was pretty interesting.

The phrase "gird up the loins of your mind" has been mentioned. It is an idiom. It refers to soldiers, farmers, and others who labor. When they had to work or run (like a soldier would), then they had to take the bottom part of their robe (dress) and tie it above their knees so they could run with ease, not tripping over their own clothing. In this way they would be ready for battle, or for work, as the case may be. It signified being prepared for the battle.
Gird up the loins of your mind in like manner signifies being prepared for the spiritual battle that lies ahead. We are admonished to be prepared. However the allusion illustrates the dress of the men at the time--flowing robes, dresses if you will.

East Indians and Pakistanis from the province of the Punjab (which is a geographical area that extends across both nations) have a typical dress called a shalwar kameez. It is composed of baggy pants and loose fitting shirt-type dress. Both men and women wear them. The women's are more decorative than the men's. But there is a difference nevertheless. No one could ever call this type of dress immodest, though they have a "type" of "pants" with them. The waist--when stretched out--has a circumference of about six feet. That's how baggy they are. All that cloth is pulled around the waist by a draw string and tied. The top part usually comes down to the knees--on both men and women. On the men it looks more like a business shirt, except longer. On women it is very decorative, something a man would never wear. It is almost always accompanied with a scarf (for women) as well.

Clothing is different, in different societies. We can't force our presuppositions of what we wear into the Bible, just because it is in our society. Our society wasn't around in the time of Christ.

 

Dare me? Come on, double dog dare me!! Nah,,, I'll be a good boy...wait let me check something... yeah... I'll be a good boy, I got pants on today!!

 

A man should look, dress, and act like a man.
A woman should look, dress, and act like a woman.

How you define these are between you, God and your spouse. Or if not married, it is between you and God.

In no case however, should your liberty be a cuase of stumbling for your brother/sister in the Lord. If it is, then your are in sin and should amend your dress so as to consider your brother's conscience.

Nuff said?

 

2 Timothy 4:1-4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

Actually, no!
Because I, for example, am dressed very modestly right now (but I would be offending somebody somewhere). If I wore a long dress, there would be somebody out there that thought I was showing too much ankle.

So how big is my circle of people that I should not offend? And at what point are their expectations unreasonable for me to fulfill?

 

I'm afraid I disagree with Karen here and I think that you put it very well. The culture in which we live does not seem to mind ankles....actually, they don't seem to mind much of anything anymore except us Christians! So just dress comfortably and cover up what is considered sexually provactive in our culture and look and act like what you are -- a man or a woman who loves the Lord.

If a woman feels more comfortable in a dress, then a dress it is. Keep your legs together and watch the breezes... How long should the dress be? Considering the necessity of keeping private parts private, the knees should be about the minimum in my own opinion. However, that is my own opinion from what I have seen and worn myself in years past!

If a woman is more comfortable in pants, then keep them loose enough and long enough to, again, keep private parts private.

Because our society views the breasts as sexual objects, they should be well and truly covered. Forget 'cleavage.'

If a man should choose to wear some type of robe-type covering in public, that would not bother me, personally, at all. It's the obvious cross-dressing I find quite uncomfortable!

I grew up near Berkeley. I have seen men in long robes. I have seen cross-dressers and transvestites. I have seen women who wear what my Dad used to call 'only a wide belt'. I have seen 'modestly' dressed women who act like hookers. Appropriateness and modesty become very obvious when you see what they are not! Men in long robes? Fine. That other stuff? No, thanks.

I enjoy being a girl. Always have. I also enjoy the freedom of movement a good-fitting pair of pants offers me in my active life-style (as I sit here typing....LOL).

 

Now a hospital gown is something that causes everyone to turn around and walk backwards. The designer should be on death row.

 

Now Scarlett, why punish the rest of the world?:laugh:

Bro Tony

 

Great post, Helen. But I am not sure we are talking about quite the same thing. I was responding to his comment that we should not dress in any way that causes a fellow brother or sister in the Lord to stumble, not the world or culture at large.

I do know Christians who are offended because I often wear pants. So the hard part of fleshing it all out in practice is the parameters of personal decision making vs. not making some Christian somewhere offended.

In other words, an example. I am not aware of my husband or fellow church members being offended by what I wear. But there are churches in town whose members would be offended by my wearing pants. So I would never visit their church and wear pants. But what if they see me in Walmart? How big is my duty to never offend some Christian somewhere, not the world and culture at large?

 

Good points, Karen, and thanks. I was laughing about seeing you in Wal Mart. Considering some of what can be seen there, at least in this town, I am quite sure you would not cause any problems at all for those looking for problems! They would have plenty else to gasp at.

 

See??? That's the whole problem ---- just who gets offended and what it takes to "offend" someone.

Shoot --- some of these fellas believe the only way not to offend is for their wives to wear those Islamic "do-dads"

Goodness sakes --- don't you ladies expose your ankles --- a man whos offended by an exposed ankle needs to see a shrink!!!!!!

Dress nice ladies --- look like a lady should --- and when Jesus comes and asks you for a drink from YOUR "Jacob's Well" you won't offend HIM

I mean --- what does it take to offend the Lord Jesus!!! Figure out what it is that offends HIM and steer yourself in the opposite direction!!! See??

 

The "do-dads" are called Burqas. This charge has already been made and opposed. No one is advocating for this extremism and I for one would find it offensive if they were worn. What you are advocating for is the extremism of anything goes, as long as it is culturally approved, this is the opposite extreme of Burqas and I, for one, am not a proponent of either. Nor have I seen any fella on this board advocate for this belief as you claim.

Once upon a time in America, Christian men (and women) were offended by naked ankles. They alleged that first it is ankles, then it is calves, then it is thighs...they were scoffed at, and decades later it turns out...they were right. Today, we have Christian women dressing in tight t-shirts, miniskirts, and pants. If you go to a CCM concert with our young Christian ladies you will see the same fashion as if you will see at a secular rock concert. Wherever the world's fashion goes, apparently our women follow a half step behind and the world's fashion aka culture becomes the standard for what is acceptable to God? Those of us who apparently need the world's psychiatric care believe they ought not expose themselves in this fashion and we believe there is scripture that supports this position.

What are the attributes of how a lady should look and what is the foundation for your position?

 

Attributes?? My wife ---- if your wife or your daughter dresses like mine --- there won't be any offense

The foundation?? Submission to the Lord Jesus Christ --- filled with & controlled by the Holy Spirit

My wife and daughter dress in such a way that they will not offend the Lord Jesus Christ ---- IOW --- nothing they wear will ever cause Him to turn His head in shame!!!!

 

http://www.kjvbaptist.org/html/Doctrine/Pants.html