Biblical counseling

[Darrell C]

You are joking, right?

Uh, yeah, Rolfe...that was humor.

Thread talking about drug use, muppet looking like he's smoking pot to a former drug addict. Get it?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Seriously, what is it about people whining about others' avatars?

First someone complained about this:

Then this:

Now this:

I think some need to pick the burrs out of their backsides if this is the type of thing that bothers them. Lighten up, people.

Good advice. Let me know when you decide to take it.




God bless.

 

[evangelist6589]

Seriously, what is it about people whining about others' avatars?

First someone complained about this:

Then this:

Now this:

I think some need to pick the burrs out of their backsides if this is the type of thing that bothers them. Lighten up, people.

Enough!!! Get back to topic.

 

[evangelist6589]

And that's the point: the "diagnosis" was used as an excuse.

It's interesting the link said something like only 10-15% experience certain "symptoms," and in my view these were not symptoms but excused behavior.

So too with many people who are "diagnosed," just like with substance abuse, there are underlying issues that could be effectively treated with Biblical Counseling, rather than meds.

Now I ask you, does your medication treat the physical aspect, or have they told you it treats you psychologically? Are the tics and other physical traits physical, or only in your mind?




It's not even relevant to what I was speaking about.

And it isn't relevant to the premise of your OP. You seem to mock those who look at conditions diagnosed and treated with medications with disdain.





Biblical Counselors assume? It's not an assumption that insomnia is not a spiritual issue? Where do you get your basis for this?

And can you tell me on what authority you state "take anxiety and depression which can be spiritual problems but also can be chemical imbalances."? Can you tell me how those "chemical imbalances," if they are in fact a reality, came about?

Can you tell me that all people function upon the same chemical structure? And that if one does not meet a standard chemical profile, then there is something wrong with them that must be treated with drugs?

And can you tell me why trying to work someone through depression or anxiety cannot be successful with Biblical counseling? Why would you discredit the views of those who think the Word of God can help people with "mental problems?"

As far as Turrets, while the physical aspect of it is a physical condition, it is only relevant when the social behavioral aspect of it enters this discussion. I will say it again: psycho-babble is big business and as far as I am concerned primary a scam on their part and a crutch for most who are involved. I can talk about this because in my days of addiction I dealt personally with this issue.

And it was God that delivered me, not secular counselors trying to shift me from my choice of drugs to theirs.


God bless.

I never said that anxiety and depression can't be treated with Biblical counseling. What I said is that there may be a physical problem to these conditions that meds can resolve in severe cases.

As far as Tourette's yes I have a physical problem that the meds resolve and control. It's not in my mind as I have had it for years.

 

[Rolfe]

Uh, yeah, Rolfe...that was humor.

Thread talking about drug use, muppet looking like he's smoking pot to a former drug addict. Get it?


God bless.

Touché. Darrell: 1/Rolfe: nil. Did not pick up on that one. *laugh*

Cheers.

 

[Darrell C]

I never said that anxiety and depression can't be treated with Biblical counseling. What I said is that there may be a physical problem to these conditions that meds can resolve in severe cases.

As far as Tourette's yes I have a physical problem that the meds resolve and control. It's not in my mind as I have had it for years.

But I don't think you realize that the OP has a negative slant towards what is simply a Biblical view and process for dealing with "Mental Problems." And that is what the unbeliever that comes here is going to pick up on.

It is, in this day, ridiculous in the minds of many that demon possession and oppression could be true. Most do not consider that all of man's ailments can be traced back to sin, whether it is the sin of the one undergoing the issue or the consequences of sin of others. Take drug abuse, for example: what are the chances that someone is going to grow up to drink or use drugs if mom and dad did it? Then we look at the physical consequences of the abuse and again we trace it back to sin.

And there is one primary solution for sin and it's consequences...the Word of God.

I can say this from experience.


God bless.

 

[Rob_BW]

What do you even mean, does the medication treat him physically or psychologically?

Unless it's a placebo, all medication treats by making a physical change to body chemistry.

 

[Sapper Woody]

I just ran across this thread a few minutes ago, and now my Calculus class is going to start. But I have heaps to say on the subject, as those of you who know me can probably imagine. I'll post more later.

Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk

 

[evangelist6589]

But I don't think you realize that the OP has a negative slant towards what is simply a Biblical view and process for dealing with "Mental Problems." And that is what the unbeliever that comes here is going to pick up on.

It is, in this day, ridiculous in the minds of many that demon possession and oppression could be true. Most do not consider that all of man's ailments can be traced back to sin, whether it is the sin of the one undergoing the issue or the consequences of sin of others. Take drug abuse, for example: what are the chances that someone is going to grow up to drink or use drugs if mom and dad did it? Then we look at the physical consequences of the abuse and again we trace it back to sin.

And there is one primary solution for sin and it's consequences...the Word of God.

I can say this from experience.


God bless.

It has no negative slant. It clearly says that Biblical Counseling is effective for dealing with sin problems.But.... There are conditions that require medications and no amount of talk therapy will resolve. Sometimes biblical Counselors assume things to be sin problems when they are not. That's my point.

 

[agedman]

And that's the point: the "diagnosis" was used as an excuse.

It's interesting the link said something like only 10-15% experience certain "symptoms," and in my view these were not symptoms but excused behavior.

For someone who has had extremely little contact (by your own admission) and also very little medical understanding of the situation (again, by your own admission) then your opinion is basically not worth much.

I have NEVER met a person with tourret syndrome that had any desire for it. In fact, most are ashamed, and have great anxiety at being "different."

The inappropriate vocalizing is especially offensive not only to the listener, but the one who has that area of infliction. It isn't a matter of self control or a butt kicking, it is a matter of one having a significant deficit that often cannot be prevented - not even by medication.

Would you level such critical statements at one with an aged that has Parkinson's or the child with cerebral palsy?

The counsel given to folks impacted (including all family members) is not just to understand what the conditions and manifestations may be, what triggers may be set, but for the members to remove the shame and disapproval imposed by the typical ignorant public.

Folks, such as you, that cannot get past their own discomfort and embarrassment and seems to be displayed by some of your comments.

Here is a statement you made:

"Included were tendencies that were without question what I believe to be treatable with Biblical counseling (and perhaps application of Biblical principles, such as the rod, for example)."

Alarming treatment method based on just a single point of reference.

Btw, I doubt any veracity is attached to your referencing your own addiction problems and the "treatment(s)" you may or may not have received can have any alignment with the mental and physical problems in which people of tourette experience and face.

 

[Darrell C]

It has no negative slant. It clearly says that Biblical Counseling is effective for dealing with sin problems.But.... There are conditions that require medications and no amount of talk therapy will resolve. Sometimes biblical Counselors assume things to be sin problems when they are not. That's my point.

I'm not sure why your condition is relevant to the underlying issue which is broader than your condition.

Are you saying that "sometimes" Biblical Counselors try to treat your (and I don't mean you personally but the syndrome itself, though if you have personal experience in this that would be relevant, though it wouldn't limit the discussion to that) condition with counseling?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

And that's the point: the "diagnosis" was used as an excuse.

It's interesting the link said something like only 10-15% experience certain "symptoms," and in my view these were not symptoms but excused behavior.

For someone who has had extremely little contact (by your own admission) and also very little medical understanding of the situation (again, by your own admission) then your opinion is basically not worth much.

Apparently you are not grasping the totality of what is in view here.

This is not a discussion simply about Tourette Syndrome, but is looking at Biblical Counselors treating many diagnoses apart from a view that there is a need for chemicals introduced to the body.

As far as my own "opinion," that is through experiencing not only personal interaction with psycho-babblers myself, but in the lives of numerous people I have known who, by the way...I have counseled.

The meds do not help them, they do not treat the underlying issues from which their condition arose, and that is the point of addressing Biblical counseling.

What experience do you have, I would ask.

I have NEVER met a person with tourret syndrome that had any desire for it. In fact, most are ashamed, and have great anxiety at being "different."

Well that's just peachy. But how is that relevant to anything I said? Where in the world do you come up with an idea I think people had a desire...

...for any condition?

This is as about as ridiculous a response as I have seen in quite a while.

The inappropriate vocalizing is especially offensive not only to the listener, but the one who has that area of infliction.

And that is a point I did address, which has nothing to do with someone desiring to have this or any other condition, but has to do with ignoring the spiritual aspects of behavior, and the underlying cause. In the case of the person I know, as I said, it was given as an excuse for improper behavior.

Do you bother to read posts before you respond?

It isn't a matter of self control or a butt kicking,

And you confirm the same mentality that allowed this person to deny personal responsibility.

"I can't help it...so why try."

Do you tell mentally incapacitated people there's no point in doing anything, because they simply don't have the ability? Or would you encourage them to do the best they could for the purpose of improvement.

I think we have two entirely different ideas as to what therapy means.

it is a matter of one having a significant deficit that often cannot be prevented - not even by medication.

And you know this...how?

If you are focusing your argument on the physical aspect of tourrette syndrome, and ignoring everything else I have said (which is apparent), then you fail to recognize that in view is not physical conditions that can be treated with meds. That is the slant the OP gives, that Biblical Counselors incorrectly diagnose spiritual problems with that which is physical, and can only be treated on a physical basis. The example of insomnia was given...do you also think that insomnia should be treated with meds? Would you not consider that perhaps some cannot sleep because of inner issues they cannot deal with?

I can tell you of some people who do suffer from insomnia and have to take meds to sleep...people who have had their chemistry changed with psych meds.

And that is a point I raised earlier, that there are consequences to beginning meds, which leads usually to more meds for a lot of people who simply need to be saved.

That is the primary issues that all people have.

Would you level such critical statements at one with an aged that has Parkinson's or the child with cerebral palsy?

Don't be absurd. Don't include me in your own confusion about what is in view in this discussion.

As far as these types of diseases, my advice is, to avoid such conditions...stop eating chemically altered food.

Read my lips...drugs are bad.

And if you don't mind...try reading my posts as well, so you have a clue as to what is being discussed.

The counsel given to folks impacted (including all family members) is not just to understand what the conditions and manifestations may be, what triggers may be set, but for the members to remove the shame and disapproval imposed by the typical ignorant public.

You give an example of a typically ignorant public, and it is clear that you have no idea as to what you are talking about.

You have no idea the difference between Biblical Counseling and secular counseling.

I do. From experience.

The number of people affected by drugs and alcohol who do not receive counseling with those who do would, if we could find reliable stats, be quite different. Then we consider those who go to Biblical Counseling and those who receive Government funded and secular treatment.

Big difference, so sorry if casting them in a negative light bothers me.

Folks, such as you, that cannot get past their own discomfort and embarrassment and seems to be displayed by some of your comments.

?

Do I really seem to be embarrassed?

let me clue you in, it's not embarrassment (although it is embarrassing that Christians present such nonsensical posts like this), it's anger that Biblical Counseling would be questioned. I expect this from Hollywood, but not from professing Christians who also profess to trust in the Word of God.

Here is a statement you made:

Included were tendencies that were without question what I believe to be treatable with Biblical counseling (and perhaps application of Biblical principles, such as the rod, for example).

Alarming treatment method based on just a single point of reference.[/QUOTE]

Here's another clue, my friend...the "single point of reference" is who is in view, and who is relevant to the statement.

But since you bring it up, yes, I believe discipline is key to a proper upbringing, that it is Biblical, and that the lack of discipline not only in secular society but in the Church herself is why this world is in the shape it is in.

Secondly, this is why we see OPs casting Biblical Counsel in a bad light...preferring rather secular courses of treatment.

And so I don't have to address another absurd post like this one, let me make myself clear...there are times when medicines are needed, and that is a proper course. But, before we get to Psych Meds...let's look at what brought about the "need" for medicines that impact the structure of the human mind, and let's not see if at the very heart of most of these matters whether there is a sin problem, which if dealt with...

...will eliminate the need for the psych meds.

Lastly, trying to make this discussion, or what I have said, center on Tourette's Syndrome lacks integrity in discussion. So review what has been said, and try to understand this is a bigger issue than people having a medical condition. That is the premise of this thread, Biblical Counselors mistakenly avoid a medical approach.

Btw, I doubt any veracity is attached to your referencing your own addiction problems and the "treatment(s)" you may or may not have received can have any alignment with the mental and physical problems in which people of tourette experience and face.

By the way...my own prior condition and the treatments and experiences I went through make me far more authoritative to speak on this than you do, so while you are discounting what you feel is an opinion, I would suggest you re-examine yours, which is after all...opinion only.

This is not secluded to Tourette Syndrome, and I have said nothing negative or offensive about those who suffer it. The person I know who had it was mentioned because of his behavior, not because he had tics, or because he cleared his throat. And again I can tell you that discipline...helped. That is from experience.

And I will tell you this, secular counselors who have never undergone the conditions which many who receive diagnoses have undergone...are not really qualified to understand, much less treat those issues. The Biblical Counselor, on the other hand...can.

Especially if they understand, by experience, what these people are going through.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

What do you even mean, does the medication treat him physically or psychologically?

What I mean is really twofold in understanding:

1. Does his treatment address chemical imbalances in his brain; or does his treatment address the muscular system, for example.

2. Does his treatment alter how thinks. Is there a difference personality wise when he takes it from when he does not.

Unless it's a placebo, all medication treats by making a physical change to body chemistry.

That's not really relevant to the question.

We can take medications that do not alter our personalities, yes?

Do you usually change in personality when you take an antibiotic?

And you bring up an interesting point...the placebo. Pretty amazing when physical conditions improve even though one is taking a placebo, isn't it?

Now, apply that to the OP: personality disorders can be treated with biblical Counseling. It does not have to be assumed that medication is needed to "correct" a chemical imbalance. How about treating a kid with ADHD, do you think a child that is hyper cannot be trained, with love, encouragement, and yes, discipline...to learn to control him/herself? I can tell you from experience that they can be. Helped raise one of those kids they said needed to be on meds, and apart from secular treatment he is one of the most laid-back people you'll ever meet. But popular opinion is that they must have medication, is t not?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

It has no negative slant. It clearly says that Biblical Counseling is effective for dealing with sin problems.But.... There are conditions that require medications and no amount of talk therapy will resolve. Sometimes biblical Counselors assume things to be sin problems when they are not.

Forgive me for asking, but do we really blur the lines between sin and perceived problems that without question need to be treated with medicine?

Again, I ask...are you saying that sometimes Biblical Counselors try to treat your condition apart from meds?

I see it has a negative slant, as it undermines the power of the Word of God to heal those who are broken. When you tie this to tourette syndrome you might make a case for Biblical Counseling being inneffective, and imply idiocy to them, but, when you expand this to all of the "disgnoses" that psycho-babblers do treat, at the heart of most of them you are going to find sin problems that can be efffectively treated with the Word of God.

Even when the physical becomes involved, as is the case with drug and alcohol abusers. These are not just in their minds, but a physical dependency arises which is physical. They say, at least I have heard, that alcohol is the most medically dangerous drug to ween someone from. But I can tell you from experience, that God took these things out of my life despite the physical dependency I had physically.

I didn't ask Him to, all I did was come under obedience to the Gospel.

That's my point.

And I still see no point. Is there something about your condition that bothers you?


God bless.

 

[Rob_BW]

Your brain controls your muscles, so why is there a distinction between medicines that primarily target the muscles versus those that target the brain?

And conflating Tourettes with ADHD is ridiculous. Is ADHD is over diagnosed, sure. But in all of my years I have only personally known 2 men affected with Tourettes, 3 counting Evan. And as I said before, neither of the two I knew were undisciplined.

I believe your assessment of this condition is deeply flawed.

 

[evangelist6589]

Forgive me for asking, but do we really blur the lines between sin and perceived problems that without question need to be treated with medicine?

Again, I ask...are you saying that sometimes Biblical Counselors try to treat your condition apart from meds?

I see it has a negative slant, as it undermines the power of the Word of God to heal those who are broken. When you tie this to tourette syndrome you might make a case for Biblical Counseling being inneffective, and imply idiocy to them, but, when you expand this to all of the "disgnoses" that psycho-babblers do treat, at the heart of most of them you are going to find sin problems that can be efffectively treated with the Word of God.

Even when the physical becomes involved, as is the case with drug and alcohol abusers. These are not just in their minds, but a physical dependency arises which is physical. They say, at least I have heard, that alcohol is the most medically dangerous drug to ween someone from. But I can tell you from experience, that God took these things out of my life despite the physical dependency I had physically.

I didn't ask Him to, all I did was come under obedience to the Gospel.

And I still see no point. Is there something about your condition that bothers you?

God bless.

Darrell can you name the animal that is on my mind at this time? Joking..

Anyways you no very little if anything about Tourette Syndrome no question about it. You do not know the experience of living with it, so you are quick to judge, slow to listen, and fast to speak.

 

[evangelist6589]

Forgive me for asking, but do we really blur the lines between sin and perceived problems that without question need to be treated with medicine?

Again, I ask...are you saying that sometimes Biblical Counselors try to treat your condition apart from meds?

God bless.

Oh yes I saw many counselors and some so called "Christian counselors" that used psycho-babble, and the Bible to try and treat me but it was ineffective with Tourettes, as Tourettes is a physical problem that requires medications to be treated.

 

[Darrell C]

Your brain controls your muscles, so why is there a distinction between medicines that primarily target the muscles versus those that target the brain?

So do psych meds developed to control emotions differ from those developed to to treat muscular and nerve issues have any difference?

And conflating Tourettes with ADHD is ridiculous. Is ADHD is over diagnosed, sure. But in all of my years I have only personally known 2 men affected with Tourettes, 3 counting Evan. And as I said before, neither of the two I knew were undisciplined.

Conflating ADHD with Tourette Syndrome?

You're having trouble with examples, aren't you?

Have you really read my posts and think the central issue is either of these?

I believe your assessment of this condition is deeply flawed.

I was open about my ignorance of Tourette Syndrome when I first mentioned it. Unfortunately, you and a few others seem to want to make this the focal point when this is not even something I am targeting.

Listen carefully...I don't have an assessment of Tourette's Syndrome...I have an assessment of the OP. Would you like to deal with that assessment? If you did, then you would actually be...

...on topic. lol


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell can you name the animal that is on my mind at this time? Joking..

Of course I can.

You're pretty predictable. Not joking.

Anyways you no very little if anything about Tourette Syndrome no question about it. You do not know the experience of living with it, so you are quick to judge, slow to listen, and fast to speak.

Hmm, so says the person that forgets I admitted ignorance which should have been a clue that this was not a primary point. So says the person who distinguishes drug and alcohol addiction from Tourette's as a sin problem rather than a medical issue.

Yup, I'm pretty ignorant all right.

Can you guess the animal I am thinking about? This animal is in the Bible, since Biblical Counseling has been completely forgotten in favor of a pity party for people suffering tourette's syndrome. I mean really, has this condition disabled you to the point of not being able to function in society? Do you spend all of your money on this condition? Do you stand in danger of dying from this condition? Of killing someone else?

Get real, my friend.

I asked before, is there something about having this condition that bothers you? The symptoms displayed by the person I knew were not even something that I gave mush thought to. What did bother me was his using this condition as an excuse. That is the only relevance to this discussion I imposed on him. It had nothing to do with the condition itself, or the symptoms he displayed. Do you curse and say "I can't help it"? Or can you help it?

And if you don't mind, you, or anyone else can do me the favor of actually presenting something about Biblical Counseling. That is the focus of what I am saying. That is what I would like to talk about. That is, after all, the premise of your OP. Why haven't you answered any of my questions?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Oh yes I saw many counselors and some so called "Christian counselors" that used psycho-babble,

So-called Christian Counselors?

So they weren't, in your view...giving Biblical Counseling?

Doesn't that make moot your OP?

and the Bible to try and treat me but it was ineffective with Tourettes,

And if you were using your condition as an excuse for inappropriate behavior, which I will assume you, like most with tourette's do not, do you think there would be a place for Biblical Counseling?

as Tourettes is a physical problem that requires medications to be treated.

I don't have a problem with that, but how is that relevant to what I said about the guy I knew?

Maybe the 10-15% who do curse and punch themselves in the face might benefit from Biblical Counseling.

But what makes me sick is putting Biblical Counseling in a context where it is useless. Your condition, it seems, is irrelevant to Biblical Counseling. This is like talking about trying to administer Biblical counseling for a broken leg.

It just seems to me that it is presenting a skewed statement that places it in a bad light, and even though you do say some, it still presents an apples and oranges scenario. My point was dealing with more than Tourette's and the only relevance of that condition was explained in my post, along with my ignorance, which should have clued you in that this was all I was speaking about.

Now, would you like to comment on the benefits, or lack thereof...of Biblical Counseling in other areas where medicines are prescribed and it is thought that these diagnoses are medical and physical issues that have to be treated with those meds?

Anyone?


God bless.