biblical limits of pastoral authority?

[timothy 1769]

what are the proper limits of pastoral authority? in areas not explicitly covered in scripture, is at appropriate for a pastor to set standards for his congregation to follow?

i ask because in my family we live a pretty separated lifestyle (compared to many, certainly), based on my convictions about what god would prefer. often such convictions are specific applications of rather general verses, which i understand others might interpret or apply differently without them being "bad" christians.

i would enjoy belonging to a church when such separation is more common, and one way it seems to me to achieve this is to attend a church with a "strong" pastor who has established similar rules for his congregation.

but, certainly, i wouldn't want to support a church whose pastor is not acting biblically, only because it seemed to make my life easier.

so what are the proper biblical limits of pastoral authority?

 

[Maverick]

If the standards are biblical or clear application of biblical principle then it is not the pastor who is setting the standards. He is just preaching and applying the Word. If he cannot properly point to a Scripture or a clear principle in the Word to support the standardthen he is setting up his preferences. One college professor did not like girls in blue jean skirts. That was his preference since they were modestly attired and no one can we find a princile against denim. Most traditional churches set a standard of all male staff must wear coat and tie. Again, that is a preference not areal biblical standard, but most folks abide by it. If the pastor was of Scottis descent and opted for all staff to wear kilts we might have some rebellion there.

You would have to give specifics before we could properly answer your question.

His authority is what Scripture gives him as one who oversees the flock of God and as Hebrews says "rules" over it though he is not to be lord over the flock.

 

[Bible-boy]

Hey! I'm of Scottish descent and I wear my kilt to church on certain occasions.

 

[David A Bayliss]

First let me state that my family and I lead a fairly 'seperated' lifestyle and we enjoy being in a Church that does the same.

However, I personally would run very quickly away from any church where a pastor 'established rules'. We need to follow the bible 100% not the precepts of men.

I know some strong, seperated brethren that insist that the internet is evil because one day it will be used by the beast. Do they have a bible verse for that? No of course not.

DAB

Originally posted by am ha'aretz:

i ask because in my family we live a pretty separated lifestyle (compared to many, certainly), based on my convictions about what god would prefer. often such convictions are specific applications of rather general verses, which i understand others might interpret or apply differently without them being "bad" christians.

i would enjoy belonging to a church when such separation is more common, and one way it seems to me to achieve this is to attend a church with a "strong" pastor who has established similar rules for his congregation.

 

[Maverick]

You can a wear if you want to, but I ain't got the knees fer it.

Again, without examples I can't really praise or condemn the pastor in question.

 

[Maverick]

In te old days, folks asked their pastor for guidance on allissues,now we balk ifhe gives any.

Good thing we are not in the OT where he who would not hearken to the priest was brougt to the gate of the temple and stoned.

 

[timothy 1769]

well. for example if he maintained all women must wear hats and be silent in worship services. seems like there's decent support for those ideas in scripture, but i don't see many people doing that.

or say, that women shouldn't wear pants. there's the verse about not wearing men's clothing, but it appears to me one could argue that pants are no longer exclusively male clothing these days.

or people shouldn't partake in mixed swimming or dancing, since it would inspire lust, and that's a pretty bad thing re: matthew 5.

"be ye holy, for i am holy" could be used to justify a truckload of things, many of which would seem to me to be debateable. don't go the theater. don't drink alcohol, ever. don't have friends of the opposite sex, unless you're looking to marry them. the jews have all sorts of things - don't walk behind women, don't even listen to them sing. don't eat, don't handle, don't touch.

[ March 05, 2003, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: am ha'aretz ]

 

[rsr]

I hanna the knees for it, but a'm tempted to atry it, kenna thee? Tartan Day willa be a'comin' for the long.

It's complicated. But if any preacher wants to deprive you of the liberty which is in Christ Jesus, beware.

As far as men's and women's clothing, what is the practical difference of the men's and women's clothing worn in Christ's day? Would your pastor object if you showed up at church in a robe (a dress in modern parlance) at your service? I can't say I know any scripture that teaches that Jesus and the Disciples wore pants.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by am ha'aretz:
what are the proper limits of pastoral authority? in areas not explicitly covered in scripture, is at appropriate for a pastor to set standards for his congregation to follow?

The Bible gives the pastor NO AUTHORITY and if he presumes to abuse the liberty you have in Christ, RUN, don't walk, AWAY from such.

The subtle power of spiritual abuse is sometimes not so subtle.

 

[Gina B]

One thing that really impressed me about the church I joined was their LACK of so-called separation. When most people refer to separation anymore, it isn't anything biblical, it's sticking your nose up in the air and playing holier than thou.
If you're going to "separate" from other people because of pants, or hats, or music, or any other thing of that type, I suggest you get on your knees and repent of stupidity and un-Christlikeness. If it's a matter of personal conviction fine, go with it, but don't separate from other people because they don't have the exact same convictions as you. Instead find what you DO agree on.
As far as a "strong" pastor, a strong pastor is one that teaches the bible and helps you learn and grow from it.
I disagree with Dr. Bob on pastoral authority, when you put yourself under someone to learn you put yourself under them to learn. For some reason we have no problem with putting ourselves under the authority of bosses, secular teachers, etc., but when it comes to those we choose for our spiritual guides/teachers we don't give them nearly the same respect. Are there limits? Sure. Don't follow him if he ain't following the bible! Other than that, if you're going to ask him to teach you, which you are when you join the church, then let him teach you. If you're going to ask his advice be prepared to follow it. If he isn't following the bible quit allowing him to teach you. Simple as that.
My opinion.

Take it or leave it.
Gina

 

[Ernie Brazee]

A thought just popped into my mind when I read Gina's post.

In America today school teachers are given more authority than many want to give the pastor. Yet it is the pastor that must give account for the souls under him.

Go figure

 

[Bartimaeus]

The Battle of Authority has been with us from the Garden. It will be with us til the Lord comes back to straighten it all out.

As far as Pastoral authority and setting "standards" in our church, I will comment.

1. I do not set standards for our church. I preach on Holiness and Separation from the world by not showing the form of our bodies as the world shows it. There must be a difference between how the world dresses and how obedient Christians dress. I do not say, "If you come here or attend our activities you must wear a dress or whatever", yet I do teach strongly and specifically on modest apparal, which by the way is most often directed to the women and men need it as much. However if I may relate a specific recent incident, I was in a home and the family wanted to know what KIND of Baptist was I, when I told them I was IFB, the woman of the home jumped to her feet and stated very concisely and strongly, "If I come there I'll have you know, I'll not give up my pants, no way no how!" I did not even say anything about pants nor do I from the pulpit, yet she was very quick to state her position. This reaction made me wonder if she would give them up if her husband ask her to or even if God ask her to. The "hauty" spirit can run two ways.

2. I believe the Bible is specific when it comes to Pastor's and their authority in the body(church). I regulate the pupit and church scheduling, what kind of music we use and other things relating to our worship and teaching services (being accountable to our men at all times), but I do not believe I have the same authority in our people's homes. That authority belongs to the Husband/Father. I will not "pastor" the home, he must.

It is a pity that some folks can't decide if/when they should take a vacation, if they should buy a house/land, and if they should even have more children without making an appt. and "running it by the pastor". What a shame and what a farce!

 

[FundamentalDan]

The pastor's authority is clearly set in the Bible when it says that he is to be an example unto the flock and not a lord over it. His duties are prayer and the ministry of the Word. I get worried when I hear people talk of a pastor as if he is the "Enforcer" of what God's Word says. That is not his job, it is the job of the Holy Spirit. He simply proclaims God's Word. As for using the verse of Hebrews 13:17 to come up with some weird doctrine about the pastor having to answer one day for what the church members do, that is crazy. If it were true, we would be nothing more than saved Catholics. The Bible is referring to the fact that he will give an account of how he preaches and leads by example.


FundamentalDan

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by am ha'aretz:
what are the proper limits of pastoral authority? in areas not explicitly covered in scripture, is at appropriate for a pastor to set standards for his congregation to follow?

The Bible gives the pastor NO AUTHORITY and if he presumes to abuse the liberty you have in Christ, RUN, don't walk, AWAY from such.

The subtle power of spiritual abuse is sometimes not so subtle. </font>[/QUOTE]I will AMEN that heartily Dr. Bob!