Biblical Marriage

[Barnabas H.]

Originally posted by Thankful: We need to be very careful to say that another person is living in sin.

Dear Betty, we do not tell anyone that they live in sin, but if they live together without the benefit of marriage, the Bible is the one which condemns them.

And for your information, as well as for others, there is no covenant marriage - it is a figment of somebody's immagination, and a very bad Bible exegesis. Sorry, but that is the bottom line.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Grace1998:
Is it an appearance of evil to have over 7000 posts on this board? I could lay out scripture that says it is.

This ought to be good ... Go ahead, humor us with this one ...

 

[donnA]

Is it an appearance of evil to have over 7000 posts on this board? I could lay out scripture that says it is.

Well I can't wait to see where the Bible specifies that posting on the BB is evil.
Of course your still postting here aren't you.
It has nothing to do with a difference of opinion, it's following scripture and God or not, not obeying and calling it godly is wrong. It has nothing to dow ith my opinion, but Gods and He gives that in scripture when He tells us to obey our goverments laws. O ahve not seen anyone dispute that the bible says that yet, therefore, we must follow scripture, not our own base instincts for living together for the sake of sex, a real sommitment would be a legally binding one.

Betty, as has already been stated, to haev a legal covenant marriage you must first have a legal marriage, with a marriage license. A covenant marriage is not instead of, but in addition to a legal marriage license.
Common law marriages can exsist in these states only, if you cross into a stat with no such law, you are not married. What do you look like then, living together in a state with no common law marriage.

Alabama
Colorado
District of Columbia
Georgia (if created before 1/1/97)
Idaho (if created before 1/1/96)
Iowa
Kansas
Montana
New Hampshire (for inheritance purposes only)
Ohio (if created before 10/10/91)
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Carolina
Texas
Utah

Congratulations on your engagement! Here's what you need to know to make the marriage legal in Kentucky.

In order to get married, you need to apply and receive a marriage license

Most churches will not allow members who are not legally married and yet living together.
fact is that in bible times and before, people wanting to marry had to sign a legal oath(document), this was a legal paper, not a religeous one. A govermental obedience. Even Jesus obeyed laws,a dn He never said we didn't haev to if we didn't want to.

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Grace1998:
Is it an appearance of evil to have over 7000 posts on this board? I could lay out scripture that says it is.

This ought to be good ... Go ahead, humor us with this one ... </font>[/QUOTE]Must be in the book of Hezekiah because I sure can't find it!

Diane

 

[Thankful]

You are absolutely correct Barnabas. I just don't like to say that a person is living in sin if I don't know all the facts. I agree that the Bible determines what is sin and condemns a person.

Thank you for pointing that out.

I am "thankful" that my husband and I have all those necessary documents to say that our marriage is legal in the eyes of the State and the eyes of God. It is very special to follow the Bible's teachings in marriage.

 

[TWade]

(Your post is full of typos.. calm down and take a deep breath)

Well I can't wait to see where the Bible specifies that posting on the BB is evil.
Of course your still postting here aren't you.

You have missed the point. The Bible speaks of busybodies, the multiplicity of words as not lacking in sin; as being foolish, etc. If you and others are so worried about Christian "witness" and abstaining from all appearance of evil, keep this in mind.

we must follow scripture, not our own base instincts for living together for the sake of sex

You seem to be hung up on or stumble over the sex thing. Who ever said marriage is defined by sex? And why would anyone "live together for the sake of sex?"

fact is that in bible times and before, people wanting to marry had to sign a legal oath(document), this was a legal paper, not a religeous one

Scripture?

 

[dianetavegia]

Grace1998 said:

(Your post is full of typos.. calm down and take a deep breath)

Respectfully, I'd like to remind you that we have members who have had numerous strokes. Some have hands crippled with arthritis and other horrible conditions. We have members who have old computers and terrible keyboards. I'm legally blind in one eye (20 /400 WITH glasses) and you cannot enlarge the print in the little 'reply' box so I cannot see what I've typed until it's posted. Typos are not always out of haste or anger but can be caused by other things too.

This was meant in kindness because I do not for one moment think you would mean to hurt someone's feelings or cause embarassment.

Diane

 

[TWade]

As I stood over my son's grave early this evening, it was laid upon my heart that to contend with one another is not what is useful in my life right now. Please forgive my contentious spirit these past few days. If I have offended or caused any to stumble, I apologize.

Dealing with my son's death has been difficult. I rejoice in his going home, but I long for his presence and it has left a void in my life.

While I stood at the grave, I looked toward the wooded area and there were four deer looking at me. It came to my mind that "As the deer panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God." I need that in my life right now and not debate.

For the last three months, I have wept every single day. I long for fellowship and that is why I joined the board. I am sorry that I got off track and allowed for contention.

It took much longer to write this than to read it.

Please allow me the grace to bow out of this conversation and to fix my mind on the things of Heaven and things eternal.

God bless all of you as you seek His will.

 

[TWade]

Grace1998 said:

quote: (Your post is full of typos.. calm down and take a deep breath)

Respectfully, I'd like to remind you that we have members who have had numerous strokes. Some have hands crippled with arthritis and other horrible conditions. We have members who have old computers and terrible keyboards. I'm legally blind in one eye (20 /400 WITH glasses) and you cannot enlarge the print in the little 'reply' box so I cannot see what I've typed until it's posted. Typos are not always out of haste or anger but can be caused by other things too.

This was meant in kindness because I do not for one moment think you would mean to hurt someone's feelings or cause embarassment.

Diane

I am very sorry, Diane, and would not want to hurt anyone by my ignorance. Thank you for your kind reminder.

 

[dianetavegia]

Grace1998, I am so sorry for your loss! I did not realize you had lost a son. I cannot imagine what you're going through. I'll be praying for you and your family.

Diane

 

[Thankful]

Grace1998, I feel your pain. I know how difficult it is to lose child. There is a great empty spot that will never be filled, but each day it gets easier as one relies on our Lord for comfort. Praying for you.

 

[donnA]

You seem to be hung up on or stumble over the sex thing. Who ever said marriage is defined by sex? And why would anyone "live together for the sake of sex?"

This and a lack of commitment is the only reason people live together. Do you think it is ok for people to live together and not be married?

Scripture?

Historical fact, study and see for yourself, a lack of knowledge of the time periods covered in the bible can lead to confusion as to what is meant sometimes. If you'll see my previous post I covered this very thing.
As I said earlier, this came from a Jewish man who has studied ancient Hebrew history becasue it is his history and heritage.

Typos?
There are three of us who use this computer and a lot of my letters are worn off, just thought I'd say that, a few months ago I got accused of anger only becasue of they typos.

I was sorry to hear about your son. I can not imagine how awful something like that must be.

 

[Baruch]

Originally posted by donnA:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />

Scripture?

Historical fact, study and see for yourself, a lack of knowledge of the time periods covered in the bible can lead to confusion as to what is meant sometimes. If you'll see my previous post I covered this very thing.
As I said earlier, this came from a Jewish man who has studied ancient Hebrew history becasue it is his history and heritage.

</font>

A Jewish man who has studied ancient Hebrew history......Tell us who he is and what are his credentials so that we may or may not decide if he is truly qualified.

 

[Baruch]

Originally posted by Bartimaeus:

Boaz and Ruth had a "marrriage by covenant".

Boaz made public announcement that if the next of kin would not fulfil his responsibility, he would.
He promised publically before the people.
He bought back the fields of his family member and restored them publically to Ruth.
He took her into his household to have and raise up children unto her previous heritage.

Marriage is to the family what the ordinaces are to the church. It is an act of worship. The State has intervened. It has no right to be intervening. It has no Biblical position to be involved in an act of worship. Marriage is a basic right of man, period. I do not need a state, any state to give me permission to do what God has told me I already have a right to do. God is my authority. The state has already without exception exercised authority over it's marriages. That fact cannot be denied in law or in history. Bro Larry already has stated his inadequacy in knowledge of the law.
The Ohio State Bar association puts out a pamphlet on this very issue. I quote, "Actually, when you repeat your marriage vows you enter into a legal contract. There are three parties to that contract: 1. You; 2. Your husband or wife, as the case may be; and 3. The State of Ohio. The state is a party to the contract because under its laws, you have certain duties to each other and to Ohio." Taken from "With this ring I thee wed", Ohio State Bar Association.
I am providing this information so that we may understand what it is that the state says about the issue of marriage. How can we obey according to Rom 13 without knowing the mindset of the state concerning the issue? So....I quote more: West's Law Encyclopedia next.
Section 1 Definition and Nature
A marriage is the union of one man and one woman for so long as they both shall live, to the exclusion of all others, by and obligation which, during that time, the parties cannot, of their own volition and act, dissolve, but which can be dissolved only by the authority of the State. Our Legislature has declared that marriage is a civil contract into which males of the age of eighteen and females of the age of sixteen, not nearer of kin than second cousins, and not having a husband or wife living, are capable of entering.
The purpose of the statutory characterization of marriage as a civil contract is to place the subject of marriage under the control of the civil authorities to the exclusion of the ecclesiastical. Under this statute marriage is a status founded on contract and is an institution regulated and controlled by law upon principles of public policy. Marriage has been futher described as a contract in which the public is interested, and to which the State is a party. (end of quote)

Try as you might you will not, I repeat you will not find any scripture authorizing the state to be involved in the covenant of marriage. As far as a Holy Marriage, it is a covenant between God as the only Authority, and the man and woman. It is done in front of witnesses and with a Minister of the Word of God present. This marriage is consumated by the stating of the marriage vows and cohabitation of a conjunal nature (act of marriage). The State marriage is consummated by a signed and delivered document by the minister who dispenses the vows, (info given upon request). When the state issues the lisence it becomes the prevailing third party to the contract. The state assumes total jurisdiction over the contract. It may without warning take over total control of the marriage and any offspring that the marriage produces, (info given upon req.). You might ramble on about Romans 13, but that does not give the state the right to be involved as a "Party". Romans 13 gives no authority for the public to be interested in a Holy Marriage and certainly not to be goveerned by "public policy". We know where "public policy" is headed today, not lisencensure, but licentiousnous. In a state approved marriage there is a servant master relationship. God has said,

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Bart quoted these issues. You all are approaching this subject from the position of what you believe the Lord says (and that is right by the way), yet you are leaving something out of the equation. You must deal with what the State says marriage is. You must deal with that issue if you are going to go to the State for their license. No one has dealt with the points made in the above quoted post.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Actually, Baruch, your late entry has caused you to miss much. Those "points" were dealt with many times. The fact that the Scripture does not explicitly give jurisdiction to the state over marriage has been soundly refuted by similar analogies of building codes for churches and driving regulations on teh way to church The fact that Scripture does not give the state such jurisdiction does not mean that the church does not have to listen.

God does not require less than the state in marriage. Fulfilling state regulations where they exist and do not contradict biblical commands is the only way to be obedient to God.

 

[Bartimaeus]

Pastor Larry,
"Dealing" with the issues that I have stated here by glossing over them or looking at them with rose colored glasses is not dealing with them. Driving my vehicle and the ordinances that control that is a long way from the Union that God has sanctified between my wife and I. They are absolutely two different areas of living.
Quote: "Fulfilling state regulations where they exist and do not contradict biblical commands is the only way to be obedient to God." The state says that public policy has an intrest in YOUR marriage. Public policy is reprobate and it is getting worse. The state says it is a PARTY to your marriage. That is not in the Bible. You cannot find that in the Bible and Quoting Rom 13 has nothing to do with it. The state becomes the prevailing third party to the contract. Do you have any idea what that means? Do you care? This is the LAW. Maybe you can live with it but I can't and I won't.

Thanks -----Bart "the dueling society was a polite society".

 

[Thankful]

How does a state have an interest in one's marriage?

How has a state interferred with one's marriage?

This is confusing to me.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Grace1998:
As I stood over my son's grave early this evening, it was laid upon my heart that to contend with one another is not what is useful in my life right now. Please forgive my contentious spirit these past few days. If I have offended or caused any to stumble, I apologize.

Dealing with my son's death has been difficult. I rejoice in his going home, but I long for his presence and it has left a void in my life.

While I stood at the grave, I looked toward the wooded area and there were four deer looking at me. It came to my mind that "As the deer panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God." I need that in my life right now and not debate.

For the last three months, I have wept every single day. I long for fellowship and that is why I joined the board. I am sorry that I got off track and allowed for contention.

It took much longer to write this than to read it.

Please allow me the grace to bow out of this conversation and to fix my mind on the things of Heaven and things eternal.

God bless all of you as you seek His will.

God Bless you Grace and let me add that I am truly sorry for your loss. I think that some useful information has been brought out in this thread but sadly some posts have been negative. I feel like anyone who seeks information on this subject can surely find plenty on these 11 pages so I will now let this post by Grace be our last word on this subject. I feel that in this time of grief we can all gain a sober reminder of what is important. God Bless you all and thanks for the input.
Murph