Biblical Repentance and the gospel of John

[AustinC]

Big avoidance.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Big avoidance.

not really, I don't have time to waste with those who are not one bit interested in what the Bible says on Repentance, but try to force their unbiblical theology on others!

 

[AustinC]

not really, I don't have time to waste with those who are not one bit interested in what the Bible says on Repentance, but try to force their unbiblical theology on others!

We have been very forthright that believers repent. All scripture tells us this truth. Now you tell me you don't have the time for this truth.
It is clear you refuse grace as the means of salvation and demand works. I will not agree to your legalism and Judaizer teaching that goes contrary to grace.

 

[Barry Johnson]

But surely the Holy Spirit has to convict the sinner first

Conviction of the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation, but occurs to sinners alike, regardless of consequent faith or unbelief. It is not irresistible or unconditionally selective. (Jn. 16:7-11)
Notice its just the sin of not Believing in Jesus .

 

[Barry Johnson]

The entire "salvation package: is a gift from God, as detailed and laid out in Romans 8!

The air we breath and the food we eat also is a gift . But its not a exclusive gift . Everyone can believe. Praise God .

 

[AustinC]

The air we breath and the food we eat also is a gift . But its not a exclusive gift . Everyone can believe. Praise God .

Do you believe that those who sneak over the US border and work in the US are citizens because they chose to enter the United States?

Does the US make the rules on citizenship in its country or does the immigrant make the rules? Does the US decide who is a citizen or does the immigrant decide s/he is a citizen?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Do you believe that those who sneak over the US border and work in the US are citizens because they chose to enter the United States?

Does the US make the rules on citizenship in its country or does the immigrant make the rules? Does the US decide who is a citizen or does the immigrant decide s/he is a citizen?

If the US made it a requirement that all those that wanted citizenship had to sign a document then all those that signed would be granted entrance . The US gave the appropriation and requirement to enter . Its There rules ( in this imaginary scenario) . Now if someone tried to enter without signing the document, then they would not be able to enter .

 

[AustinC]

If the US made it a requirement that all those that wanted citizenship had to sign a document then all those that signed would be granted entrance . The US gave the appropriation and requirement to enter . Its There rules ( in this imaginary scenario) . Now if someone tried to enter without signing the document, then they would not be able to enter .

So God chooses who is a citizen and who isn't. Agreed?
God determines who he will make alive with Christ. Agreed?
God chooses to extend grace and grant faith. Agreed?
God determines who is and who isn't a citizen in His Kingdom. Agreed?

 

[Yeshua1]

If the US made it a requirement that all those that wanted citizenship had to sign a document then all those that signed would be granted entrance . The US gave the appropriation and requirement to enter . Its There rules ( in this imaginary scenario) . Now if someone tried to enter without signing the document, then they would not be able to enter .

What if they had to use a blue pin, but all that they could see was a red one to use?

 

[SavedByGrace]

It is clear you refuse grace as the means of salvation and demand works

as we say here in England, this is codswallop!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Conviction of the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation, but occurs to sinners alike, regardless of consequent faith or unbelief. It is not irresistible or unconditionally selective. (Jn. 16:7-11)
Notice its just the sin of not Believing in Jesus .

not sure about this. The Holy Spirit is Almighty God, and therefore "all-knowing". If, as He will, knows that a sinner will refuse to come to Jesus even though they are "convicted" by Him, then surely the Holy Spirit will not "convict" this person.

 

[SavedByGrace]

So God chooses who is a citizen and who isn't. Agreed?
God determines who he will make alive with Christ. Agreed?
God chooses to extend grace and grant faith. Agreed?
God determines who is and who isn't a citizen in His Kingdom. Agreed?

then the so-called "elect" according to the "reformed" position, are no more than mere machines! and it is no more than fatalism, which is Biblically complete rubbish!

 

[AustinC]

as we say here in England, this is codswallop!

As we say hear across the pond, "pull your head out of the sand so you can see." [emoji2936][emoji2935]

 

[SavedByGrace]

As we say hear across the pond, "pull your head out of the sand so you can see." [emoji2936][emoji2935]

you mean "here"?

 

[AustinC]

then the so-called "elect" according to the "reformed" position, are no more than mere machines! and it is no more than fatalism, which is Biblically complete rubbish!

Not at all.
Is God an emotionless force? If so, that is fatalism. Naturalists/Darwinists/Evolutionists are fatalists.
God justly condemns all sinners and mercifully pardons those whom He wills.
Can you not grasp this truth in God's word? Does it somehow escape your comprehension?

 

[SavedByGrace]

God justly condemns all sinners and mercifully pardons those whom He wills

Romans 11:32, "For God has consigned ALL to disobedience, that he may have mercy on ALL"

The first "ALL", is what 3:23 says, "or ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

Unless you suppose the only the "elect" are seen as "disobedient", in which case the "non-elect" are not! "That He might have mercy on ALL". This does not teach universal salvation, as the verb, ἐλεήσῃ used here is in the subjunctive mood, which means, "conditional". the cfonditions being "repentence and faith" as Jesus teaches in Mark 1:15. The fact still remains that it is the desire of God to show His Mercy of the entire human race, but all will not desire this.

 

[rlvaughn]

The use of the instruction "to repent" is not reported in the gospel according to John.
John 5:24, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
Without biblical repentance belief is impossible.
Biblical repentance always precedes faith, Mark 1:15.
Now in John's letter, 1 John 1:8-9, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Now this promise is not to the lost person but to the one who is already saved. Someone who has the Spirit of truth in them.

I am late to the party and there are 7 pages to wade through. Could you briefly explain the point you are making based on repentance not being mentioned in John? Thanks!

 

[AustinC]

Romans 11:32, "For God has consigned ALL to disobedience, that he may have mercy on ALL"

The first "ALL", is what 3:23 says, "or ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

Unless you suppose the only the "elect" are seen as "disobedient", in which case the "non-elect" are not! "That He might have mercy on ALL". This does not teach universal salvation, as the verb, ἐλεήσῃ used here is in the subjunctive mood, which means, "conditional". the cfonditions being "repentence and faith" as Jesus teaches in Mark 1:15. The fact still remains that it is the desire of God to show His Mercy of the entire human race, but all will not desire this.

It is helpful if you quote the entire passage so you can see the context.

Romans 11:25-36
Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.

Do you see Paul's point?
Mercy and election are not just for the Jews. Mercy and election is extended to all nations, tribes, and tongues.
Notice also that Paul never demands repentance before God can redeem. This is because repentance is an effect upon a believer, caused by God extending gracious salvation to that person.

 

[SavedByGrace]

It is helpful if you quote the entire passage so you can see the context.

Romans 11:25-36
Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.

Do you see Paul's point?
Mercy and election are not just for the Jews. Mercy and election is extended to all nations, tribes, and tongues.
Notice also that Paul never demands repentance before God can redeem. This is because repentance is an effect upon a believer, caused by God extending gracious salvation to that person.

This is the old trick that the reformed try. But what you guys fail to realize, is that the human race is made up of the TWO, The Jews and The Gentiles! Period. If you are not Jewish, then you are a "Gentile", and vice-versa. Do you get this?

 

[AustinC]

This is the old trick that the reformed try. But what you guys fail to realize, is that the human race is made up of the TWO, The Jews and The Gentiles! Period. If you are not Jewish, then you are a "Gentile", and vice-versa. Do you get this?

What does God tell us?

Romans 9:4-8
They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

Do you not understand what God tells us? Do you not understand that Jesus died for the children of the promise?