Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Brother Bob said:You talk like "being sorry for your sins against God" is wrong.
Like I've said repeatedly, one wouldn't even care about Jesus unless he was sorry for his sins against God. What would be the point?
Brother Bob, do I somehow using words that are not usually used in your neck of the woods, somehow?Brother Bob said:First of all, why are you condemning others for adding words and you just did.
Also, to repent from dead works. What do you think "dead works" is, if not sin. That which is not of faith is "SIN".
Psa 34:18The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
What do you think a "broken" heart is? What is a contrite spirit?
contrite : feeling or showing sorrow and remorse for a sin or shortcoming <a contrite criminal> <a contrite apology> <contrite sighs>
Psa 38:18For I will declare mine iniquity; I will be sorry for my sin.
2Cr 7:8For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though [it were] but for a season.
2Cr 7:9Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
I was deeply sorry over my sins when I turned to the Lord.
You talk like "being sorry for your sins against God" is wrong. Why would you not not rather see a sinner become sorry against God, than to see a sinner, who is not sorry one bit, that he had sinned against God. Why have you set off on a mission, to try to convince people, you do not have to ever be "sorry" over sinning. I think you have a problem Ed, and I can't figure why you are so set on a person not being sorry over sinning.
BBob,
First place, I never said you added "works". Maybe you could show me where I did that. I said you were adding words. Which you said: "I. No, I did not "add works", here or ever, in any of my posts as having to do with salvation, which is the gift of God, contrary to your accusation about me here. I have repeatedly said that the verb "repent" is the 'flip-side' of the verb "believe", to use my usual terminology. And that this is consistent with the direct answer to the question of "What must I do to be saved?" The answer found in Scripture is "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved".
Some of them, I never heard of. Maybe you could refresh my mind on those to. It is hard to comment when you throw in all those phases that I just can't remember. As far as they go though. Maybe you could tell me what is wrong with:I can find no Scripture that gives another direct or different answer to this direct question concerning salvation, unlike you and some others apparently believe. Paul did not add any qualifiers or "canonized rhetoric" to this, such as, "providing you are first, sorry for your sins, second, realize you are lost, third, be willing to and fourth, actually turn away from your sins, fifth, promise to try not to do them any more, sixth, make a 'public profession of faith, seventh, as you confess Jesus publicly, when you eighth, pray for mercy, as you ninth, "let go and let God", by tenth (this one has three parts, A., B., and C.), being willing (A.) to "make Jesus Lord of your life", (B.) "putting him on the throne of your life", and (C.) kicking yourself off the throne, eleventh, opening your heart's door to Jesus by twelfth, 'giving him your heart", as you are thirteenth, 'taking that first step', and "Let's see, I forgot part fourteen of my outline, but give me a minute, and it will surely come back to me - 'uh , er, um, and...!" Did I mention confess your sins, publicly? Maybe that was the one I forgot. Anyway, when you have done all this, then you are ready to be baptized.
I believe you are "easy believism" Ed. IMO I could be wrong, but your answers seem to put you there.Not one of any of those religious 'catch phrases' above has anything to do with what is necessary for salvation or can be found anywhere in the pages of Scripture, for I have checked for each and every one of them. The closest one might come, is the declaration of "believe in your heart" found in Rom. 10:9-10.
Brother Bob said:First of all, why are you condemning others for adding words and you just did.
Also, to repent from dead works. What do you think "dead works" is, if not sin. That which is not of faith is "SIN".
Psa 34:18The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
What do you think a "broken" heart is? What is a contrite spirit?
contrite : feeling or showing sorrow and remorse for a sin or shortcoming <a contrite criminal> <a contrite apology> <contrite sighs>
Psa 38:18For I will declare mine iniquity; I will be sorry for my sin.
2Cr 7:8For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though [it were] but for a season.
2Cr 7:9Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
I was deeply sorry over my sins when I turned to the Lord.
You talk like "being sorry for your sins against God" is wrong. Why would you not not rather see a sinner become sorry against God, than to see a sinner, who is not sorry one bit, that he had sinned against God. Why have you set off on a mission, to try to convince people, you do not have to ever be "sorry" over sinning. I think you have a problem Ed, and I can't figure why you are so set on a person not being sorry over sinning.
BBob,[/quote] Not sure if I misread, the first time, or if you edited a spelling change of 'works' to 'words', in the opening sentence, as I read the post, initially. Probably, I misread it. I stopped in the middle of composing for evening services. It does not really change what I wrote, however. So, continuing. You might note I put the words that were "added" as a note of exposition of the quote, in (). That is to distinguish. But even those words are found in Scripture, having to do with the subject. If I may - and I'll use the 'quotes' and cite the references. " Actually, his need here, was to "repent from (his own) dead works"" and ""faith in (toward) God"". (Remember, I was addressing npetreley's post, where he was inquiring about Luke 18:13, and "What does Man 1 (the Pharisee) have to change his mind/repent about?") to put this in context. These embolded words, above, are almost verbatim partial quotes from Hebrews 6:1b, which readsI did overlook one thing, failing to proof-read, before I left for evening services, when I wrote this, however, in wording, where I inadvertantly used a verb, when I should have used a noun, and did not catch it when I returned, before I posted it. So I should have said it in these words, using the noun, viz."Actually, his need here, was "repentance from (his own) dead works","(You are surely aware I was here referring to the Pharisee, wiht the "his", I would presume.) The DARBY version renders the second as part as "faith in God", which amounts to the "same difference", from my POV. As far as the Pharisee is concerned, let us look at the whole passage, noting what phrases I have emphasized.not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, (NKJV, KJV, KJ21, consistent with ASV, NASB, DARBY, ESV, HCSB)It seems the Pharisee was overly full of his own righteousness, from where I sit. And what is God's evaluation of all our (own) righteousnesses? I believe it is "filthy rags", if the brain cells are still working at all. Look at this obnoxious, self-righteous Pharisee. He even told the Lord how he was even 'better' than the tax-collector, about whom he didn't even have one thing "he could 'pin on him'!" He just knew that he was better than the tax-man. FTR, he went far above and beyond the law's 'requirements', with some of his practices. And all that was just piling higher and deeper more "filthy rags" in God's estimation. (Isa. 64:6) Unfortunately, I have not yet gotten to Part II., which will have to wait till tomorrow.9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And (But - HCSB, ASV, NASB, ESV) the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his. eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful (Lit. 'God, you be propitiated'- my rendering) to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; (Lk. 18:13 - NKJV)
Ed
To be continued in Part II.
Unfrotunately, that is how the world looks at the Pharisee. God looks at him as merely "blind." And the Pharisees POV is that he "sees."EdSutton said:.It seems the Pharisee was overly full of his own righteousness, from where I sit. And what is God's evaluation of all our (own) righteousnesses? I believe it is "filthy rags", if the brain cells are still working at all. Look at this obnoxious, self-righteous Pharisee. He even told the Lord how he was even 'better' than the tax-collector, about whom he didn't even have one thing "he could 'pin on him'!" He just knew that he was better than the tax-man. FTR, he went far above and beyond the law's 'requirements', with some of his practices. And all that was just piling higher and deeper more "filthy rags" in God's estimation. (Isa. 64:6)
You misreadBBob,[/quote] Not sure if I misread, the first time, or if you edited a spelling change of 'works' to 'words', in the opening sentence, as I read the post, initially. Probably, I misread it. I stopped in the middle of composing for evening services. It does not really change what I wrote, however. So, continuing. You might note I put the words that were "added" as a note of exposition of the quote, in (). That is to distinguish. But even those words are found in Scripture, having to do with the subject. If I may - and I'll use the 'quotes' and cite the references. " Actually, his need here, was to "repent from (his own) dead works"" and ""faith in (toward) God"". (Remember, I was addressing npetreley's post, where he was inquiring about Luke 18:13, and "What does Man 1 (the Pharisee) have to change his mind/repent about?") to put this in context. These embolded words, above, are almost verbatim partial quotes from Hebrews 6:1b, which reads
Please, not another Calvin-free will thread. The thread is about repentence.Ed Franklin said:By this, do you mean that it is something generated by the will of the sinner?........a product of the sinner's heart?
Like: Oops, yeah, that sin is nasty. I see that on my own and I repent of it.
Or, perhaps God has some hand in this?
Brother Bob, Once again, you are attempting to get me to "define" repentance in the same way that you do. And then once you have defined it in the way you do, then charge me with not believing in repentance, the same charge that has been falsely made about carrierwave~, Curtis Hudson, Jack Hyles, Sanderson, DHK, and many others, not one of whom I would know if I met them on the street, save the late Curtis Hudson whom I did meet, one time) in a companion thread. Not one of those has said they "do not believe in repentance". Virtually all of them have specifically said they DO believe in repentance. I have posted at least a half dozen times that I believe in repentance; that Christians "should repent"; and that repentance is, in fact, necessary for salvation. (Further, I have said that one should do these things as a Christian, as well, and only when one is a believer, can he then become a disciple. And as a dicsiple, one should abhor sin, keep oneself from sin, and should do good works, as well. ) I have defined this, entirely in Biblical language, and even on this thread.Brother Bob said:You misread
You need to answer my questions Ed, for me to be able to help you.
Also, are you addressing Npet; I never mentioned the Pharisee that I am aware of. You need to stay with one subject Ed and one Poster, so we at least have a chance understanding each other. I have no Idea what you are talking about, when you bring the Pharisee into it.
I know you have you and carriewave~ who don't believe in repenting and turning from sin to God. Don't know if anyone else agrees with you or not. You are plowing new ground Ed.
BBob,
saturneptune said:Please, not another Calvin-free will thread. The thread is about repentence.
Ed Franklin said:Well, excuuuuuuuse me. I'll come back when I have enough posts to command the respect of the illuminati.:tonofbricks:
Going a bit far to rename Dr. Bob, one of the Senior Administrators on the BB, who's been around for almost 7 1/2 years, and one with 26,589 posts as "drive-by Bob", from one with who's been here for less than 3 mos., with all of 28 posts, doncha' think?Ed Franklin said:But "drive-by Bob" the original poster has ignored the thread altogether since it's inception.
No Brother Bob, I am sure I am not "calvinist", as you would probably want to define it. (Neither was John Calvin a "Calvinist", but why quibble over details?) Nor am I (nor was Jacob Arminius) an "Arminian", either. BTW, there is no difference in these two 'systems", as I've before posted.Brother Bob said:You sure you are not calvinist Ed??? If you are not Calvinist, then how does a person get saved?
Do you believe that a person can "believe" before he is saved, or do you believe a person has to be saved, in order to believe. Explain to me what a person has to do, to receive salvation. If you say nothing, then please tell me what determines who gets saved? Seems to me, you want it as a Calvinist, but yet its to all men. Well, that would be a General Salvation, would it not, everyone would be saved. If you believe a person can not do anything to receive Salvation, then why and how is a person saved??
You say, if I can understand you, that a person must repent and turn from sin towards God. I believe in the Spirit leading someone to salvation Ed, but I believe that same Spirit is striving with all men, and the ones who "believe" and repent, are the ones who are led to Salvation. I cannot understand what you are saying Ed, it don't make sense to me. Maybe you are just too "deep" for me.
BBob,
EdSutton said:Does give a little perspective, at least from where I sit.
Ed
Too late! I read it. Before it was "edited", that is.Ed Franklin said:.......oh, never mind
Just when I think I do understand you, then you put conditions on what you just said.So... - Keep tryin' 'to find a pigeonhole in which to stick me' tonight, and I'll add a bit more in the AM. I've got to get to bed, and my bride needs the computer.
G'nite, all!
Ed
This plainly says, or at least is how I understand what you said, one has to repent, and that repentance has to occur, and then the "in order to be saved". Also, that one should turn to God. Don't know what you mean here, "should" or "must", who else would one turn to, the Devil? But then you go on to say: (Ac. 26:20) And I do hope and teach that a Christian should definitely be "turning from sin", even though that phrase is nowhere to be found in Scripture. I don't know from these two statements what you mean, but it seems to be saying a person must "repent" which leads to salvation and then as a Christian, turn from sin.I'd guess, that I do believe one has to repent, and that repentance has to occur, in order to be saved.
Also: Also:I believe one should "turn to God".
I don't remember your explanation that there is no difference between a Calvinist and Arminian. Someone needs to tell these people there is not difference in their systems, whatever that is.No Brother Bob, I am sure I am not "calvinist", as you would probably want to define it. (Neither was John Calvin a "Calvinist", but why quibble over details?) Nor am I (nor was Jacob Arminius) an "Arminian", either. BTW, there is no difference in these two 'systems", as I've before posted.
I just assumed that it was to say a "sinners prayer" and thats it, wholly molly, you are saved. You seem to be saying this to me. IMOLet's see, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "easy believism"