Biblical Repentance

I didn't get that impression from his posts, but I'll let him speak for himself. Like I've said repeatedly, one wouldn't even care about Jesus unless he was sorry for his sins against God. What would be the point? What's there to reconcile if I don't know I've sinned against God and am in trouble?

Can sorrow accompany repentance without making the two things synonymous?

 

Its good to see so many agree that you must feel sorrw over your sins against God.

This is what I have be contending for since the beginning. We went all the way around the horn and end up on the same side. God Bless,

BBob,

 

Brother Bob, do I somehow using words that are not usually used in your neck of the woods, somehow?

I. No, I did not "add works", here or ever, in any of my posts as having to do with salvation, which is the gift of God, contrary to your accusation about me here. I have repeatedly said that the verb "repent" is the 'flip-side' of the verb "believe", to use my usual terminology. And that this is consistent with the direct answer to the question of "What must I do to be saved?" The answer found in Scripture is "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved".

I can find no Scripture that gives another direct or different answer to this direct question concerning salvation, unlike you and some others apparently believe. Paul did not add any qualifiers or "canonized rhetoric" to this, such as, "providing you are first, sorry for your sins, second, realize you are lost, third, be willing to and fourth, actually turn away from your sins, fifth, promise to try not to do them any more, sixth, make a 'public profession of faith, seventh, as you confess Jesus publicly, when you eighth, pray for mercy, as you ninth, "let go and let God", by tenth (this one has three parts, A., B., and C.), being willing (A.) to "make Jesus Lord of your life", (B.) "putting him on the throne of your life", and (C.) kicking yourself off the throne, eleventh, opening your heart's door to Jesus by twelfth, 'giving him your heart", as you are thirteenth, 'taking that first step', and "Let's see, I forgot part fourteen of my outline, but give me a minute, and it will surely come back to me - 'uh , er, um, and...!" Did I mention confess your sins, publicly? Maybe that was the one I forgot. Anyway, when you have done all this, then you are ready to be baptized.

Say what??

Not one of any of those religious 'catch phrases' above has anything to do with what is necessary for salvation or can be found anywhere in the pages of Scripture, for I have checked for each and every one of them. The closest one might come, is the declaration of "believe in your heart" found in Rom. 10:9-10.

I could add more, but surely you can see my point about such convoluted, non-sensical, 'theological double-speak', by which one can manage to "talk all around the gospel", never once mentioning "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.", "For God so loved the world...", "by grace you have been saved through faith...", "how that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scripture...", or any of a number of other Scriptural phrases that, along with these, ARE actually found there in the written Word of God, by which one can be born again.

Part II to follow, shortly.

Ed

P.S. Hang on, for I cannot answer a response, while composing an answer to another point.

 

First place, I never said you added "works". Maybe you could show me where I did that. I said you were adding words. Which you said: "
in regard to a 'direction' of repentance for salvation.

Some of them, I never heard of. Maybe you could refresh my mind on those to. It is hard to comment when you throw in all those phases that I just can't remember. As far as they go though. Maybe you could tell me what is wrong with:
1.Sorry for your sin.
2.realize you are lost.
3. Be willing to actually turn from your sins
4. included in 3
5. promise to try not to do them any more
6. make a 'public profession of faith.
7. &8. as you confess Jesus publicly, when you eighth, pray for mercy.
9. "putting him on the throne of your life", and (C.) kicking yourself off the throne (got no idea what you are saying here, maybe you could clarify.)
10. opening your heart's door to Jesus, (very important)
11.'taking that first step', (believing)
12. confess your sins, publicly (ashamed of me, I be ashamed of you)
13. then ????

If these are too hard for you Ed or anyone else, if you are ashamed to do them or anyone else. I feel sorry for you.Which ones do you have a problem with Ed.. Please tell me what you find fault with on any of these you listed. I would like to know??? Couldn't you open your heart for the Lord to come in, any of them????

I believe you are "easy believism" Ed. IMO I could be wrong, but your answers seem to put you there.
You must strongly believe in the "sinners prayer". I hear some of the preachers even say repeat after me and quote the prayer and then say you are "saved". Are you one of them Ed, I would really like to know??????

Do you believe there is a difference between the church and the world Ed.??????

All of this is about "feeling sorry for your sins", I ask you Ed., have you ever felt sorry or remorse for you sins???

Can you please give me any historical backing for believing you do not have to feel remorse for you sins, as a step to salvation???

Amos 5:

14: Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken.
15: Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph


BBob,

 

Unfrotunately, that is how the world looks at the Pharisee. God looks at him as merely "blind." And the Pharisees POV is that he "sees."

And, as such, he is almost beyond help. But God loves him, too (John 3:16).

Jesus has to come in and change his mind. But first, He has to convict him of sin, and righteousness, and judgment, right?

You were blind once. How did God make you see? Were you "regenerated" and then saw it? or did you hear the word of truth and then recognize it? Which does the Pharisee need --- to hear the word or to have the Spirit regenerate him first?

skypair

 

You misread

You need to answer my questions Ed, for me to be able to help you.

Also, are you addressing Npet; I never mentioned the Pharisee that I am aware of. You need to stay with one subject Ed and one Poster, so we at least have a chance understanding each other. I have no Idea what you are talking about, when you bring the Pharisee into it.

I know you have you and carriewave~ who don't believe in repenting and turning from sin to God. Don't know if anyone else agrees with you or not. You are plowing new ground Ed.

BBob,

 

Please, not another Calvin-free will thread. The thread is about repentence.

 

I'm a little disturbed by the charge of easy believism. No matter how you define repentance, I believe this is a false charge.

I see a similarity between this charge and the charge that Calvinists do not evangelize, or the charge that if you believe in Calvinism, there's no point to evangelism. This isn't about logic, it's about what we're commanded to do. We are commanded to spread the Gospel, and almost all, if not all Calvinists I know understand this. Being a believer in the doctrines of grace and election, our motivation may be different than that of free-willers, but we still believe in spreading the Gospel.

Similarly, our motivation with respect to sin may be different than some others (maybe not, but I'm leaving open the possibility), but I believe it is Biblical motivation. Jesus says that if we love Him we will do as He commands. The Bible also says that we love Him because He first loved us. In addition, 1 John covers sin very nicely. It shows all sides of the issue of sin. John writes to us so that we will not sin. Why? Obviously because we should not sin! However, he also says that if anyone says he has no sin, he is a liar. And, of course, that if we confess our sins, He forgives us, cleanses us and is an advocate for us.

So just because there are differences of opinion on the definition of Biblical repentance, it does NOT follow that the person who disagrees with you is advocating easy believism.

 

Brother Bob, Once again, you are attempting to get me to "define" repentance in the same way that you do. And then once you have defined it in the way you do, then charge me with not believing in repentance, the same charge that has been falsely made about carrierwave~, Curtis Hudson, Jack Hyles, Sanderson, DHK, and many others, not one of whom I would know if I met them on the street, save the late Curtis Hudson whom I did meet, one time) in a companion thread. Not one of those has said they "do not believe in repentance". Virtually all of them have specifically said they DO believe in repentance. I have posted at least a half dozen times that I believe in repentance; that Christians "should repent"; and that repentance is, in fact, necessary for salvation. (Further, I have said that one should do these things as a Christian, as well, and only when one is a believer, can he then become a disciple. And as a dicsiple, one should abhor sin, keep oneself from sin, and should do good works, as well. ) I have defined this, entirely in Biblical language, and even on this thread.

Yet the "no-repentance" charge persists, over and over. Why is that?

And most every one of them, that I mentioned above, as far as I can recall, said they do believe in "turning from sin" and "turning to God". I know I have. Now please read the following slowly, It is an attempt to make somethig clear; it is not an atttempt to "muddy the waters".

There is all the difference in the world when one "turns to God", by believe/faith when one has this "change of mind" FROM "idols", from "dead works" (self-righteous works, works of the law), from sin (even though the specific phrases of "turn from sin" and "turn from sins" are not to be found in Scripture) (BTW, I already know that this will be ignored and a verse or two will be cited that has a similar, but not the exact same wording.) in the matter of salvation, and what you, and several that you quote and identify with, are supporting.

What we (and by this I mean those who are preaching basically what I am 'preaching', here, and which I have taught for a couple of years longer (38+) from when I understood the difference, than you claim to have been preaching as you do (35+), are supporting and believe, is salvation by grace through faith, and this salvation is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." And we do not negate nor confuse this with some tradition, by any back-door effort to admit works into salvation. We believe that God's righteousness is imputed to us apart from any works on our part, and that one who does not do any works at all, but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, has his faith imputed for righteousness. I can cite Scripture for each phrase I used above, but will only cite Romans 3-4 and John 3 here as to what I just said, due to needing to leave shortly.

However you and several others are making this a "two-step" (or more) process, with "repentance, as you want to define it, and faith as separate steps, and a sinner has to first get himself prepared to be saved, by somehow "repenting from sin" (turning from sin), by some undefined "weep, wail, and gnash your teeth" mode, even though that 'turning' is impossible for a lost individual. on his own, as he has only a sin nature to begin with, and then, and only then, once he has accomplished this preliminary step, is he able to 'believe', in order to be saved, and have faith, and that faith has to encompass certain undefined "good deeds", and he must not practice certian undefined sins, or else it was not genuine faith to begin with. That is a mixing of grace and works, and is back-loading works into faith, in a "back-door" attempt.

Do you not see the difference? Have to go for now. I will attempt to get to the Point II, I spoke of last evening, done later this PM.

BTW, I do thank you for your offer of "help". That feeling about answering questions and offering to help is mutual.

Ed

 

You sure you are not calvinist Ed??? If you are not Calvinist, then how does a person get saved?
Do you believe that a person can "believe" before he is saved, or do you believe a person has to be saved, in order to believe. Explain to me what a person has to do, to receive salvation. If you say nothing, then please tell me what determines who gets saved? Seems to me, you want it as a Calvinist, but yet its to all men. Well, that would be a General Salvation, would it not, everyone would be saved. If you believe a person can not do anything to receive Salvation, then why and how is a person saved??

You say, if I can understand you, that a person must repent and turn from sin towards God. I believe in the Spirit leading someone to salvation Ed, but I believe that same Spirit is striving with all men, and the ones who "believe" and repent, are the ones who are led to Salvation. I cannot understand what you are saying Ed, it don't make sense to me. Maybe you are just too "deep" for me.


BBob,

 

Well, excuuuuuuuse me. I'll come back when I have enough posts to command the respect of the illuminati.:tonofbricks:

I'm dumb enough to think my question was about repentence. But "drive-by Bob" the original poster has ignored the thread altogether since it's inception. Perhaps I should follow his example.

(Fortunately, he posted the same OP on FFF, where it inspired more intelligent discourse, and even Dr Bob interacted there and answered my question when posed by another member)

ta

 

:laugh:

This pads out the response to over 10 letters.

 

Going a bit far to rename Dr. Bob, one of the Senior Administrators on the BB, who's been around for almost 7 1/2 years, and one with 26,589 posts as "drive-by Bob", from one with who's been here for less than 3 mos., with all of 28 posts, doncha' think?

After all, Dr. Bob has only made about 950 X the number of posts Ed Franklin has made.

FTR, Dr. Bob has averaged almost 10 posts per day over his time on the BB.

Ed Franklin has averaged fewer than 1 per day over his time on the BB.

Hmmmm!

Does give a little perspective, at least from where I sit. :type:

Ed

 

No Brother Bob, I am sure I am not "calvinist", as you would probably want to define it. (Neither was John Calvin a "Calvinist", but why quibble over details?) Nor am I (nor was Jacob Arminius) an "Arminian", either. BTW, there is no difference in these two 'systems", as I've before posted.

Let's see, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "easy believism" (I wonder why it's never defined, as opposed to merely being tossed out as a pejorative slur? But I digress.), either, but I'm not that, as far as I can tell. And I'm not part of the crowd "who don't believe in repenting" (whatever that pejorative falsehood is supposed to mean), for I have clearly said at least 10 times, I'd guess, that I do believe one has to repent, and that repentance has to occur, in order to be saved. (Mk. 1:15; Ac. 17:30; 20:21; Heb 6:1b) I'm one who believes in "turning to God" (Ac.15:19 - NKJV, ESV, NASB, NLT, et al.) and who has "turned to God" (I Thes. 1:9), and certainly I believe one should "turn to God". (Ac. 26:20) And I do hope and teach that a Christian should definitely be "turning from sin", even though that phrase is nowhere to be found in Scripture.

But that does not give you a good 'pigeonhole' in which to stick me, now does it?

I'll give you one hint. I do not believe in nor do I teach what is dubbed as "Lordship Salvation"!

So... - Keep tryin' 'to find a pigeonhole in which to stick me' tonight, and I'll add a bit more in the AM. I've got to get to bed, and my bride needs the computer.

G'nite, all!

Ed

 

.......oh, never mind

 

Too late! I read it. Before it was "edited", that is.

(Not speaking of irony, you understand.)

Ed

 

Just when I think I do understand you, then you put conditions on what you just said.

This plainly says, or at least is how I understand what you said, one has to repent, and that repentance has to occur, and then the "in order to be saved". Also, that one should turn to God. Don't know what you mean here, "should" or "must", who else would one turn to, the Devil? But then you go on to say: (Ac. 26:20) And I do hope and teach that a Christian should definitely be "turning from sin", even though that phrase is nowhere to be found in Scripture. I don't know from these two statements what you mean, but it seems to be saying a person must "repent" which leads to salvation and then as a Christian, turn from sin.

I believe scripture teaches, you must turn from sin or you die in them and go to hell.

I still say, your Pastor is "bald headed" from pulling his hair out from talking to you.

well, good luck what ever you are.

I don't remember your explanation that there is no difference between a Calvinist and Arminian. Someone needs to tell these people there is not difference in their systems, whatever that is.

I just assumed that it was to say a "sinners prayer" and thats it, wholly molly, you are saved. You seem to be saying this to me. IMO



BBob,