Biblical rules for women in society

Karen, in my opinion, the question you raise points out how churches in America relate with and/or conform to the society around them. I think in both positions - now & 100 years ago - Baptist churches are/were much in line with the general thinking of the society. We often convince ourselves that we only follow the Bible, but in truth the surrounding culture does affect us. The issue of divorce is a good example. Compare the general position of 100 years ago with the general position today. Either present-day Baptist churches have conformed to U. S. societal positions on divorce, or the shift in how society looks at divorce has freed the churches to rethink their position and conform it to Biblical standards. Either way we look at it, Baptists in America are quite susceptible to the pressure of society. Hope this makes sense, and addresses your question.

 

My husband and I have often had this discussion we agree that a wife should support the husband in his role as head of the family. However in today's society the wife must be prepared for the chance that she might have to support the family on her own. The fact is the society no longer provides means to take care of the widows and the orphans as was taught in the early church. So even if you are a stay at home mother/homemaker. The fact is at some point you could be forced into the work place. I know about this from experience. My mother was left a widow with three children and unfortunately had no skills that allowed her to find a job. So while she struggled to make ends meet she also had to get an education to support her family. So the question is will society accept the responsibilities set forth in the Bible and care for the widows and orphans, or must the woman be forced to work to support the family. This applies not only to single parent households but also to households where the spouse's health no longer allows them to work.

 

>>>>God wants women to be gentle AND quiet.<<<<<<<

Are you sure you know what God wants in this case? It does not seem reasonable to me.

 

I am sure some stay at home moms will not like this statement but here it is. I suspect that some prefer staying home with kids because it requires less effort to do that than to become a professionally trained and highly productive member of the work force. Now I am not slighting the often marvelous and necessary work that can be done at home, but still I have suspicions about the motives in some cases. I prefer strong and outspoken women, rather than meek and quiet ones.

 

Then your preference is for women who are disobedient to Scripture.

 

Peter101 said:

And I prefer REAL men!

Diane

 

And I prefer REAL men!

Diane </font>[/QUOTE]Does your husband know about these men?

 

Or, more accurately, for the cultural norm for women at the time the Epistles were written.

Joshua

 

timothy 1969, Are you saying that no Christians should have professional careers?

Joshua

 

Yes, Peter. God gave us these instructions in His Word. In 1 Peter 3. Christians are to follow the Bible.

 

and your wife, Peter? LOL

Yes, My husband is a REAL man and the head of our household.

Diane

 

You are isogetically interpretting this scripture Pastor Greg and HCL... a poor method interpretation methods in the opinion of most.. AND the verse refers to Spirit. One can have meek spirit and have strong actions. However, that is beyond my point. The scripture is full of strong, outspoken women (Deborah, Ruth, Esther, Rahab, Hannah to name a few) who had meek spirits yet were strong women with strong words.

 

Eph. 5:22 says this ......... Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord
In the previous verse, Paul said we were to submit "one to another in the fear of God"
Husbands are to submit to their wives and wives are to submit to their husbands. But the scriptures teach there is a greater degree of submission on the wife's part. Actually, husband and wife should submit to God's will in every situation. But any time you have two people together, there is opportunity for disagreement on what God's will is. Therefore, there has to be a final authority in a marriage or deadlock would be the result. The man has that final authority.

The meaning of the word "submit" has to be clearly understood or many problems can arise. The dictionary defines "submit" as "to yield (oneself) to the will or authority of another" (New Am. Her. Dict.). There are at least two major things about submission that need to be pointed out.

First, submission is voluntary. There are many ways that people can be forced to obey, but true submission is an attitude of the heart that cannot be dictated. An employee may be forced to obey the instructions of an employer but if there is resentment and bitterness in his heart, he is not in submission. Every parent knows that children can be made to obey out of fear of punishment, but true submission, where the child lovingly yields to the instructions of the parent, is a totally different thing.

Likewise, in the marriage relationship, the submission of the wife to her husband is an attitude that the wife must voluntarily choose. A husband cannot demand that his wife submit. Men who have tried to use this verse to force their wife into submission have never succeeded. They may have intimidated or condemned their wife into some measure of compliance, but that's not the submission Paul is promoting here. Notice that Paul instructed the wives to submit, rather than instructing the husbands to make their wives submit. Submission is a choice, not a punishment.

Secondly, submission and obedience are not synonymous
This can be seen by comparing Peter's actions with his teaching in 1 Peter 2:13 We are never to disobey God in an effort to obey someone else
Paul is not commanding wives to obey any ungodly command their husbands give
Notice the use of the word "own" in this verse. This is specifying that a wife is to submit to her own husband, not men in general. There are some people who have interpreted scripture to teach that women in general are to submit to men in general. That is not the message of the scripture
Other passages such as 1 Timothy 2:12 use the definite article "the" in front of the singular word "man" when referring to a woman's submission. And 1 Corinthians 14:34 refers back to the Old Testament curse of Genesis 3:16 where the Lord made Eve subject to her husband Adam
Women are not inferior to men and men do not have authority over women. The husband has been given authority over his wife only.
This phrase, "as unto the Lord," has been taken by some to mean that wives are to submit to everything the husband wants in the same way that we as believers are to be subject to God in everything. That comparison won't work because God doesn't make mistakes or sin. Husbands do both. Wives are not being told to obey ungodliness
Paul is simply stating that the wife should submit herself unto her husband and should see that as an act of submission unto the Lord. This could be summed up in the words of Colossians 3:23 which says, "And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men."

Once again, Paul's letter to the Ephesians and his letter to the Colossians are so similar they are like twin letters
In the Parallel verse in Colossians 3:18 Paul said wives should submit to their husbands "as it is fit in the Lord." There is an unfitting type of submission and that is the type where a woman does whatever the man says, even if it is sin. That is not what Paul is teaching

 

timothy 1969, Are you saying that no Christians should have professional careers?

Joshua

men should work to provide for their families, but that
work should not be the focus of their lives, or what
gives their life meaning, or a way for them to feed their
pride.

work should be a means to an end - to serve and glorify
god, not oneself. work should be the way a man loves and serves his family.

i don't like the word "career" - it emphasizes all the wrong things imo.