For those who are in Christ.
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Billy Graham has passed away
- Thread starter Baptist Believer
- Start date
For those who are in Christ.
Are you saying that he was not?
I think that Billy was trusting in Jesus alone to save him though....
If occasionally espousing poor doctrine condemns us, then we're all stuffed
How have you come to that conclusion? Would you have said what he did in that clip?
I am not a huge fan of Graham and consider Schuller to have been in heresy, but I think Graham was correct on this point. However, it is certainly NOT universalism, despite the name of the video.
In both Galatians and Romans, Paul makes much of Abraham being called by God without any Law or religious ritual and then demonstrates that our faith in like that of Abraham's. While all persons who will be saved by (and in) the Person (aka "name") of Jesus the Christ, not everyone is going to have all the details. If we claim such a thing, then we are saying that all persons in the Americas prior to Christian missionaries (many of them Roman Catholic) arriving and making contact, are outside of God's grace. We are also claiming that persons outside of an area of human Christian witness are outside of God's grace.
In nature and existence, all persons are given knowledge of God. Those that choose to follow that knowledge and seek to know God can find Him. God's Spirit works both with and well beyond our personal and corporate efforts to call a people to Himself.
That's how there will be people of every tribe and nature in God's new creation.
So, God saves outside of His Word, His gospel, and His Christ. Okay, but why would Jesus have died, in that case, and if you can answer that, why would He have given the Great Commission?
First answer how people are saved without ever having heard of Christ?
If you want to have that conversation, please start another thread.
In short...
(1) Regarding God saving outside "His Word." Since you are using "Christ" in your questions, I assume that you are misusing a capital "W" and actually referring to written scriptures. God saved Abraham and many other people over the years outside of access to written scriptures. The scriptures do not mediate salvation, although they are incredibly helpful for God's people.
(2) Regarding God saving outside of "His gospel." I have no idea what you mean here. The gospel is simply knowledge of God communicated to humankind and can be communicate many different ways. When I write "many different ways," you need to understand that I am not talking about any old religious viewpoint (religions are quite different), but simply ways that the knowledge can be "heard" and understood. A believe in the true and living God may look like a poor adherent of another faith because they really don't believe the false parts of whatever faith in is their culture.
(3) Regarding God saving outside of "His Christ." I thought I made it clear in my previous post that all persons who are saved are saved through Christ, even if they have incomplete knowledge of Him. Just like Abraham and others.
(4) "Why would Jesus have died?" Because in God's divine providence. the Father, Son and Spirit worked together to demonstrate their love for humankind, demonstrating both justice and grace in the act of atonement, death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ. There are books worth of things to be said about that, but the question is quite irrelevant to the issue of whether or not someone can come to faith without an explicit Christian witness borne by human means.
(5) Why would Jesus have given the Great Commission? To give people more opportunities to hear the gospel and to make God more well known in the world so that we can more adequately serve God. God wants His people to be personally involved in the redemption of the world and to build up the community of the Kingdom of God as we reign with Him in this present age and the age to come. Remember, if we have a view of the full gospel of Christ (not a reductionistic version of the gospel that is solely focused on the atonement and whether or not certain people "get into heaven"), then this answer is obvious.
I'm interested in an answer to that question, as well.
How was Abram/Abraham saved?
If he can be saved - and it be our example how people can be saved outside of the Law (see Galatians 3 and Romans 4) - without specifically hearing about Christ, then people today can be saved.
This is the perfect thread for such a question, don't you think?
You sir are an absolute heretic and the word of God is not agreement with you on this.
John 3:18 KJV
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Romans 10:13-17 KJV
[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? [15] And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! [16] But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? [17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
I'm interested in your answer to that question in particular. That's why I asked it.
And those who have never heard? Bad luck?
I think we obey the Mod's direction here
1) If you want to be critical of Billy - please start a new thread - let this one be for his memory
2) According to Billy he did NOT die:
“Someday you will read or hear that Billy Graham is dead. Don’t you believe a word of it. I shall be more alive than I am now. I will just have changed my address. I will have gone into the presence of God.”
—Billy Graham (1918–2018)
Thousands who are in Heaven because of Billy are now rejoicing with him - my parents included.
2) According to Billy he did NOT die:
“Someday you will read or hear that Billy Graham is dead. Don’t you believe a word of it. I shall be more alive than I am now. I will just have changed my address. I will have gone into the presence of God.”
—Billy Graham (1918–2018)
Thousands who are in Heaven because of Billy are now rejoicing with him - my parents included.