• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Billy Graham

HAMel

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I read a brief history the other day regarding Billy Graham and his enrolment at Bob Jones University back in 1939. BJU was just getting started when Graham arrived and he soon discovered that some of the rules were way over the top. For example, young men were forbidden to talk with female students. Time was permitted only once a week and for no longer than 15 minutes, and then, only with a chaperone present.

He decided to change colleges and enroll in a college that had just opened their doors in Florida. Once BJ got word of Graham's plan to change he called him into his office and told him that if he left for another College he would never amount to much as a Preacher. Graham left anyway and the rest is history.

...I wonder if ole Bob ever ate any crow?

Time Magazine, Billy Graham Edition.
 

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
Well, not exactly. BJU had been up and running for 11 years when BG enrolled. And BJU had been in Florida from 1927 through 1933 when they moved to Cleveland, Tennessee.

And BJ Sr. made the quip when asked about BG, "Whenever there were two sides to an issue, you could count on Billy being on both sides." :D

And BJ Sr. eating crow? Are you insane! The Jones family are all violently allergic to crow! :D:D:D
 

HAMel

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
(Are you insane!) ...yes, TCassidy Administrator.., I must be 'insane'. Insane to even think I could "contribute" to this forum.
I provided my source which is all I had to go by. Perhaps you should contact Time Magazine and tell 'em they got it all wrong.
 

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
(Are you insane!) ...yes, TCassidy Administrator.., I must be 'insane'. Insane to even think I could "contribute" to this forum.
I provided my source which is all I had to go by. Perhaps you should contact Time Magazine and tell 'em they got it all wrong.
Uh, are you feeling okay? I was agreeing with you. Any of the Jones eating crow (admitting they were wrong) is highly unlikely.
 

OnlyaSinner

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I'm not sure of that. Stephen Jones' apology for some of BJU's past admission (and other) policies seemed to include some corvid feathers.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I read a brief history the other day regarding Billy Graham and his enrolment at Bob Jones University back in 1939. BJU was just getting started when Graham arrived and he soon discovered that some of the rules were way over the top. For example, young men were forbidden to talk with female students. Time was permitted only once a week and for no longer than 15 minutes, and then, only with a chaperone present.

He decided to change colleges and enroll in a college that had just opened their doors in Florida. Once BJ got word of Graham's plan to change he called him into his office and told him that if he left for another College he would never amount to much as a Preacher. Graham left anyway and the rest is history.

...I wonder if ole Bob ever ate any crow?

Time Magazine, Billy Graham Edition.
Well good thing that he was not claiming to speak for God when saying Billy was now a nobody!
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Actually, BOTH Bob Jones's and John R Rice had pegged Billy Graham as a compromising modernist long before it became so evident that even on this board there are those who have related the truth of the man's compromising behavior.

Long before Graham was puffed up by the world newspaper in Los Angeles, long before Stuart Hamblen's conversion, long before he moved to Chicago, long before there was the "team" of Bev. Shay / Cliff Barrows (a BJ graduate), long before Al. Smith helped him in the early days, Graham was already subtlety drifting toward that which he would embrace to gather both popularity and prominence.

Bob Jones was right. And the "rules" were never the issue with Graham, they were an excuse to escape responsibility for him dealing with the prone to wander, the drifting that would later push him into compromising and modernism. Declaring friendships with the enemies of the Lord and fellowshipping with those who opposed the message he preached.

Btw, why did Billy Graham attend the funeral of Bob Jones, Jr. if he was so opposed to them?

Especially when he knew they stood in open position against much of what Graham was doing even in the late sixties - how much more evident did he show his colors the older he got.

Because, ultimately, he knew they were right, but the machine was set in motion in Los Angeles and by the time he realized he had no ultimate control he was unwilling to do anything other than still preaching the message of Scriptures. Events took upon themselves a life of their own and as he admitted in his last days, he wished he had spent more time in studying the Bible and learning the truths.

So do I, for if he had, he might not have allowed himself to drift so compromisingly into alliances and declaring righteousness and friendships that would damage the message he so desired to deliver.

But, God used him, just as God purposes to use all who are His.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Actually, BOTH Bob Jones's and John R Rice had pegged Billy Graham as a compromising modernist long before it became so evident that even on this board there are those who have related the truth of the man's compromising behavior.

Long before Graham was puffed up by the world newspaper in Los Angeles, long before Stuart Hamblen's conversion, long before he moved to Chicago, long before there was the "team" of Bev. Shay / Cliff Barrows (a BJ graduate), long before Al. Smith helped him in the early days, Graham was already subtlety drifting toward that which he would embrace to gather both popularity and prominence.

Bob Jones was right. And the "rules" were never the issue with Graham, they were an excuse to escape responsibility for him dealing with the prone to wander, the drifting that would later push him into compromising and modernism. Declaring friendships with the enemies of the Lord and fellowshipping with those who opposed the message he preached.

Btw, why did Billy Graham attend the funeral of Bob Jones, Jr. if he was so opposed to them?

Especially when he knew they stood in open position against much of what Graham was doing even in the late sixties - how much more evident did he show his colors the older he got.

Because, ultimately, he knew they were right, but the machine was set in motion in Los Angeles and by the time he realized he had no ultimate control he was unwilling to do anything other than still preaching the message of Scriptures. Events took upon themselves a life of their own and as he admitted in his last days, he wished he had spent more time in studying the Bible and learning the truths.

So do I, for if he had, he might not have allowed himself to drift so compromisingly into alliances and declaring righteousness and friendships that would damage the message he so desired to deliver.

But, God used him, just as God purposes to use all who are His.
Despite his flaws and mistakes, used by God in missionary/evangelst greater fashion than any since the Apostle paul.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So, you know every missionary/evangelist used by God (and how he used them) since Paul?
I was just using the numbers given for the amount of people reached by Dr graham with the Gos[pel message during his lifetime, and the number of claimed converts to Christ.
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
(Are you insane!) ...yes, TCassidy Administrator.., I must be 'insane'. Insane to even think I could "contribute" to this forum.
I provided my source which is all I had to go by. Perhaps you should contact Time Magazine and tell 'em they got it all wrong.
Frankly, TCassidy is far likelier to have it right about evangelical history than Time Magazine. Just sayin'. ;)
 
Last edited:

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Actually, BOTH Bob Jones's and John R Rice had pegged Billy Graham as a compromising modernist long before it became so evident that even on this board there are those who have related the truth of the man's compromising behavior.
According to documents in the John R. Rice Papers at Southwestern BTS, Rice backed Graham strongly in The Sword of the Lord until 1956. That year Graham sent a letter to the Baptist Standard supporting the Texas Baptist Convention in not allowing designated gifts to the Cooperative Program. (Also that year, Graham came out publicly against fundamentalism.)

This allowed SBC liberals to get funds from conservatives. This was actually when the break between Graham and Rice occurred, though it became more public in 1957 when Graham had liberals on the committee of the New York Crusade.
 
Last edited:

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I read a brief history the other day regarding Billy Graham and his enrolment at Bob Jones University back in 1939. BJU was just getting started when Graham arrived and he soon discovered that some of the rules were way over the top. For example, young men were forbidden to talk with female students. Time was permitted only once a week and for no longer than 15 minutes, and then, only with a chaperone present.

He decided to change colleges and enroll in a college that had just opened their doors in Florida. Once BJ got word of Graham's plan to change he called him into his office and told him that if he left for another College he would never amount to much as a Preacher. Graham left anyway and the rest is history.

...I wonder if ole Bob ever ate any crow?

Time Magazine, Billy Graham Edition.
My parents were at Wheaton in the 1940s. I believe they knew Billy, but I'm not certain. Granted, the rules at Wheaton in their day were less strict than BJU, but back in the day, the rules at Wheaton were much more draconian. Here are the rules from 1860 (from the Billy Graham archives at Wheaton):

"THE FOLLOWING THINGS ARE POSITIVELY DISALLOWED, VIZ.:

■ Generally, all offensive, disorderly or indecent conduct

■ propagating infidel principles

■ profaning the Sabbath

■ profane or obscene language or behavior

■ playing billiards and like games

■ using intoxicating liquors or tobacco

■ disorder in rooms

■ disorder in or about the buildings, especially at nights

■ injuring college property

■ a careless use of fire

■ throwing water, dirt, or other offensive things from the windows

■ joining any secret society or entering the marriage relation while a member of the College

The deportment of the sexes towards each other will he particularly regarded by the Faculty, and any student whose conduct shall be, in the judgment of the Faculty, either foolish or improper, will be promptly separated from the institution, if admonition fails to correct it. In short everything is forbidden which will hinder, and everything required, which, we think, will help students in the great object for which they assemble here, which is improvement of mind, morals and heart.

The Faculty will exercise a parental and moral oversight of the character and conduct of the students, each officer having power to suspend disorderly students until next Faculty meeting. The students are required to be present at all College Exercises; to treat their officers with respect, and fellow-students with decorum; to attend church on the Sabbath; and not to leave town; or be out at night; or be out of their rooms in study hours; or absent from examinations without permission."
 

Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
An old roommate long ago related to me a story his father had told him about Billy Graham.

It seems that Billy Graham was a college classmate of his.
Early each week Billy would arrive and then eventually fall asleep in class.
The professor wasn't too bothered.

"Let him sleep. Billy was out evangelizing during the weekend, doing more work than all of us to spread the gospel."

Rob
 

HAMel

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Hey HAMel! What is up?

Not much RD2. I hadn't posted on here in quite a while so thought I'd take another chance by posting on Billy Graham but I see that nothing much has changed. If I were to post on here that 'Right is Right and Left is Left' it wouldn't be but about 10 minutes and someone would come on telling that, "NO..., RIGHT IS RIGHT AND LEFT IS WRONG!"

Folks come on here telling that Billy Graham was this and he was that and he compromised and he didn't do this and he didn't do that and the rhetoric goes on and on and on with most of it negative. Interesting though that absolutely NOT ONE naysayer has said anything about Billy Graham's Gospel Messages being in error! In my humble opinion Graham DID preach the truth. Isn't that what all preachers are supposed to do?

In that Times Article I read they did provide a Picture of one of his crusades in South Korea where it was estimated that ONE POINT FIVE MILLION people were in attendance. 1.5 million on ONE night instead of for the entire crusade. It was an awesome picture to say the least and most inspiring. Inspiring to me at least and I do remember reading that during the late 1970's/early 1980's South Korea recognized a surge of Christen awareness.

So, Bob Jones didn't like Graham. I do suppose he got over it though. Personally, I do believe that Graham was a great preacher as God did bless him for a special calling. Now-a-days we have multi-mega-million dollar preachers tickling the ears of many and sending then straight into the pits of hell.

RD2, you have a good one my friend and may God Bless! Oh, and don't forget..., we can thank England for our July 4th Holiday.
 
Top