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dianetavegia
Guest
I DID NOT SAY THAT.
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Birth control and Christian colleges.
- Thread starter Paul33
- Start date
Dianatavega quoted Paul33 as saying:
If practiced, bf on demand results in the supression of ovulation on average 15 months.
ORIGINAL POST BY PAUL33:
"Most women who breastfeed on demand, meaning no schedules, bottles, pacifiers, on average will cease ovulating for about 15 months."
Ok, you edited and your editing misconstrues what he said. Your statement makes it appear that Paul 33 said that ALL women will not ovulate. Tell it straight please! Thank you.
If practiced, bf on demand results in the supression of ovulation on average 15 months.
ORIGINAL POST BY PAUL33:
"Most women who breastfeed on demand, meaning no schedules, bottles, pacifiers, on average will cease ovulating for about 15 months."
Ok, you edited and your editing misconstrues what he said. Your statement makes it appear that Paul 33 said that ALL women will not ovulate. Tell it straight please! Thank you.
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dianetavegia
Guest
Twice he's accused me of either misquoting or saying things I did NOT say, as in the above quote.
I LOVED being pregnant! Breast Feeding was a complete joy! I beg women to not give up just because of a day or two of discomfort. I LOVE being a mother! ALL I ever wanted to be was/ is a wife and mother. I am a keeper at home!
It really hurt me that you would imply I did not enjoy being with child.
Diane
I LOVED being pregnant! Breast Feeding was a complete joy! I beg women to not give up just because of a day or two of discomfort. I LOVE being a mother! ALL I ever wanted to be was/ is a wife and mother. I am a keeper at home!
It really hurt me that you would imply I did not enjoy being with child.
Diane
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dianetavegia
Guest
YOU tell it STRAIGHT! Look at page 7 of this thread! EXACT QUOTE by myself, an administrator on this board and NOT a liar!
Diantavegia:
You have my apology. I WAS WRONG.
Your quote of Paul33 is bold/unbolded. It makes it appear that you are responding to what he said in the unbold. Still my bad and I should have re-read your post before responding. I am grieved that it hurt you, that was the farthest thing from my intent in writing the post!
It is Friday, I am tired and signing off.
May the Lord richly bless you and give you a great Lord's Day this weekend.
[ October 22, 2004, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: foxrev ]
You have my apology. I WAS WRONG.
Your quote of Paul33 is bold/unbolded. It makes it appear that you are responding to what he said in the unbold. Still my bad and I should have re-read your post before responding. I am grieved that it hurt you, that was the farthest thing from my intent in writing the post!
It is Friday, I am tired and signing off.
May the Lord richly bless you and give you a great Lord's Day this weekend.
[ October 22, 2004, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: foxrev ]
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dianetavegia
Guest
No problem. Apology accepted.
And the Lord bless you too.
Diane
And the Lord bless you too.
Diane
Pete Richert
New Member
Okay, I'm back!
We wanted our second child as soon as we could, and tried as hard as we could, though now in hindsight my wife would wish they were a little farther apart (maybe six months). It was hard being sick for song long through very needy years of the first's life.
Anyway, back to the family bed. Being a tradition back to Solomon's time doesn't make it right or wrong. Prostitution is a tradition that goes back farther! Is there a biblical admonition to share your bed with your children until they wish to leave?
I have two. 2 1/2 and 7 months. Joy of my life.
On demand, as you call it.
I recognize it is common practice, but that doesn't make it biblical. My children spent a good amount of time in our bed, though it didn't work perfectly for the reason given in the only biblical story you listed, my wife always had dreams of rolling on the baby and couldn't sleep (or dreams of me rolling on the baby because I'm a lug!) But they slept well there and that made us very happy!
Experiences of women are different. My wife had two horrible pregnecies and two very painful labors. She was terribly sick for four or five months, throwing up most of the day. In the later months she had trouble breathing and a lot of back pain. And then the labors were just nightmares of pain. But our two little girls are worth every second of it and ten times more! My wife may want more kids, but she would just as well skip that whole pregency thing.
We wanted our second child as soon as we could, and tried as hard as we could, though now in hindsight my wife would wish they were a little farther apart (maybe six months). It was hard being sick for song long through very needy years of the first's life.
Anyway, back to the family bed. Being a tradition back to Solomon's time doesn't make it right or wrong. Prostitution is a tradition that goes back farther! Is there a biblical admonition to share your bed with your children until they wish to leave?
Hi Pete,
My point in saying the family bed was biblical was simply to report that Jesus tells a story that includes the concept. It was/is cultural to many societies.
In the sense that Jesus referred to it and that it is in the Bible, makes it "biblical." The fact that Jesus speaks of it would peak my interest.
I want to make my position clear so that there is no misunderstanding. I do not think that it is a sin to use barrier methods if done with the right attitude. I know that this is subjective. But it is not my intent to tell others how many children to have. My own personal experience, however, is that the use of barrier methods can easily lead a couple to focus on themselves rather than on God. At least, that was my experience.
What I would like to see from Christian colleges and churches is not a blanket acceptance of birth control. Neither do I want there to be silence in regard to this issue.
There were some who posted on this site the lack of knowledge concerning "the pill." This is sad and shouldn't be happening in Christian circles.
Each couple will need to decide this issue before God. But I would like couples to have all of the information at their disposal.
What does Scripture teach about children and families?
How are families to function?
What is the role of the husband and wife in child rearing?
How should couples view the gift of sex in marriage?
How should couples view the possibility of children in marriage?
How does God view children in marriage?
I think if we are all honest with the state of American Christianity, we would have to admit that much of our views about family and children does not come from Scripture but rather society.
Sure, some have hard labor and difficult births. Some breastfeed on demand and still get pregnant relatively quickly. Do I think that it is healthy to get pregant every year for 19 years? No.
We do need to use "common sense" as some have pointed out. But the truth is, many of us use common sense to repudiate the idea that children really are a blessing. For many, our lifestyles bear it out.
The quick repudiation of the idea among many Christians shows that this is an area that really hits a nerve.
If God's Word says that children are a blessing, I would think long and hard about what I'm doing to limit that blessing. Is that so unreasonable?
Good night, eveyone. I wish God's richest blessings on all of you.
My point in saying the family bed was biblical was simply to report that Jesus tells a story that includes the concept. It was/is cultural to many societies.
I want to make my position clear so that there is no misunderstanding. I do not think that it is a sin to use barrier methods if done with the right attitude. I know that this is subjective. But it is not my intent to tell others how many children to have. My own personal experience, however, is that the use of barrier methods can easily lead a couple to focus on themselves rather than on God. At least, that was my experience.
What I would like to see from Christian colleges and churches is not a blanket acceptance of birth control. Neither do I want there to be silence in regard to this issue.
There were some who posted on this site the lack of knowledge concerning "the pill." This is sad and shouldn't be happening in Christian circles.
Each couple will need to decide this issue before God. But I would like couples to have all of the information at their disposal.
What does Scripture teach about children and families?
How are families to function?
What is the role of the husband and wife in child rearing?
How should couples view the gift of sex in marriage?
How should couples view the possibility of children in marriage?
How does God view children in marriage?
I think if we are all honest with the state of American Christianity, we would have to admit that much of our views about family and children does not come from Scripture but rather society.
Sure, some have hard labor and difficult births. Some breastfeed on demand and still get pregnant relatively quickly. Do I think that it is healthy to get pregant every year for 19 years? No.
We do need to use "common sense" as some have pointed out. But the truth is, many of us use common sense to repudiate the idea that children really are a blessing. For many, our lifestyles bear it out.
The quick repudiation of the idea among many Christians shows that this is an area that really hits a nerve.
If God's Word says that children are a blessing, I would think long and hard about what I'm doing to limit that blessing. Is that so unreasonable?
Good night, eveyone. I wish God's richest blessings on all of you.
joyfulkeeperathome
New Member
About breakthrough ovulation, my figures were a little off. This is from the prolife website (I'll give the url at the end...) This is part of what they have to say. I urge you to read the entire article.
"Dr. Ronald Chez, a scientist at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), publicly stated that the new Pills of today, with their lower estrogen dose, allow ovulation up to 50% of the time! (Source: Sterns, David, M.D., Sterns, Gina, R.N., B.S.N., Yaksich, Pamela, "Gambling with Life, How the I.U.D. and 'The Pill' Work" (www.top.net/vitalsigns)."
http://www.prolife.com/BIRTHCNT.html
This is about half-way down the page.
Regardless of whether or not people us birth control is between them and God. But if birth control is used, I would urge all of you to study the effects of the pill, patch, iud, etc. before using them. Any birth control that causes the death of a family member is not a birth control that Christians should be using!
"Dr. Ronald Chez, a scientist at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), publicly stated that the new Pills of today, with their lower estrogen dose, allow ovulation up to 50% of the time! (Source: Sterns, David, M.D., Sterns, Gina, R.N., B.S.N., Yaksich, Pamela, "Gambling with Life, How the I.U.D. and 'The Pill' Work" (www.top.net/vitalsigns)."
http://www.prolife.com/BIRTHCNT.html
This is about half-way down the page.
Regardless of whether or not people us birth control is between them and God. But if birth control is used, I would urge all of you to study the effects of the pill, patch, iud, etc. before using them. Any birth control that causes the death of a family member is not a birth control that Christians should be using!
Anecdotal story: My son and daughter in law were married some months after she had brain surgery. (Don't go there, thinking she'd HAVE to have brain surgery to marry MY son . . )
They sought to not have chlidren for a few years and were faithfully so doing.
But unknown to them, the anti-rejection drugs from the surgery canceled out the other pills . . and near their first anniversary MY first grandchild was born.
Man can plan and pop pills and snip . . but God is still the Blessed Controler of all things!
They sought to not have chlidren for a few years and were faithfully so doing.
But unknown to them, the anti-rejection drugs from the surgery canceled out the other pills . . and near their first anniversary MY first grandchild was born.
Man can plan and pop pills and snip . . but God is still the Blessed Controler of all things!
Son Jeremiah has:
Noah James (5) the one spoken above
Cami Rose (3)
Chloe Grace (1)
Son Josh has
Christian Joshua (3)
Austin David (1)
?? due in Feb
Daughter Lyssa has
Daniel Griffin (3)
Natalie Elizabeth (1)
That makes EIGHT grandkids. And I am just a youth of 56!
Noah James (5) the one spoken above
Cami Rose (3)
Chloe Grace (1)
Son Josh has
Christian Joshua (3)
Austin David (1)
?? due in Feb
Daughter Lyssa has
Daniel Griffin (3)
Natalie Elizabeth (1)
That makes EIGHT grandkids. And I am just a youth of 56!
identicaltwin
New Member
I'd like to mention that we had a group of current graduate (mostly) students from BJU over here in Poland helping us as part of a summer ministry team, and they were discussing this issue. Some of them were taking both sides and it had been debated widely in their classes. Seeing as how none of them were married, we didn't go into it in depth, but it obviously had been discussed.
As to joyfulkeeperathome, simply sit back and enjoy the child you have, quit crying over what you don't have and maybe it will happen. Wow. I realize that many people want lots of children, but realize the child you currently have and your husband and maybe a stray child in the neighborhood or two could use your attention. I have 5 of my own, am thankful for them.
We seem to have a problem discussing this rationally. I remember going into a church (with our 5...babe in arms) and a stranger asking me how old I was. I told her 35, and she made the astute comment, "You can easily have another 5 children!" I about threw stones at her! It seems like a pretty personal topic to be discussing with a stranger upon meeting and when you have a babe in arms, it isn't what (some) moms need to hear. I personally needed some reassurance that I was a person of value for who I was, not for my baby-making.
I really think it boils down to between husband and wife, and the biblical injuction that the father is to provide for his household. If he can't provide for them, then he shouldn't have them. In Bible days, and even 100 years ago, many children died...I'd like to not even guess what percentage, so that a women could actually have lots of children and not end up with that many who lived.
All that and yet, I understand those who are anti-birth conrol. I also understand that some women can handle multiple pregancies easily and some who can't. However, some men can't handle little kids after a certain age, either. IMO, you'd be far better off to have fewer and enjoy the ones you have.
As far as Paul33 saying that we'd not have more if we did the family bed, I went in to my doctor for my 6 week checkup, after only breastfeeding. The nurse asked me if I'd had my first period yet, and I just laughed....how absurd, and I let her know I thought that was funny. She said, "Don't laugh... it can happen." Thankfully she warned me. It happened 2 weeks later, and I was ONLY breastfeeding...not in the bed though..that didn't go over very big with dh.
I do tend to agree with Dr. Bob. Certainly some see very strong Biblical principles in the issue, but I think that the "whole picture" has to be taken together. Certainly some are convicted in this area, and others aren't. Some are "unnecessarily" convicted in areas where we don't have to be due to extrabiblical teaching. (seems to find extra fodder on the internet.)
Becky P.
www.famiy.solidrockpl.org
As to joyfulkeeperathome, simply sit back and enjoy the child you have, quit crying over what you don't have and maybe it will happen. Wow. I realize that many people want lots of children, but realize the child you currently have and your husband and maybe a stray child in the neighborhood or two could use your attention. I have 5 of my own, am thankful for them.
We seem to have a problem discussing this rationally. I remember going into a church (with our 5...babe in arms) and a stranger asking me how old I was. I told her 35, and she made the astute comment, "You can easily have another 5 children!" I about threw stones at her! It seems like a pretty personal topic to be discussing with a stranger upon meeting and when you have a babe in arms, it isn't what (some) moms need to hear. I personally needed some reassurance that I was a person of value for who I was, not for my baby-making.
I really think it boils down to between husband and wife, and the biblical injuction that the father is to provide for his household. If he can't provide for them, then he shouldn't have them. In Bible days, and even 100 years ago, many children died...I'd like to not even guess what percentage, so that a women could actually have lots of children and not end up with that many who lived.
All that and yet, I understand those who are anti-birth conrol. I also understand that some women can handle multiple pregancies easily and some who can't. However, some men can't handle little kids after a certain age, either. IMO, you'd be far better off to have fewer and enjoy the ones you have.
As far as Paul33 saying that we'd not have more if we did the family bed, I went in to my doctor for my 6 week checkup, after only breastfeeding. The nurse asked me if I'd had my first period yet, and I just laughed....how absurd, and I let her know I thought that was funny. She said, "Don't laugh... it can happen." Thankfully she warned me. It happened 2 weeks later, and I was ONLY breastfeeding...not in the bed though..that didn't go over very big with dh.
I do tend to agree with Dr. Bob. Certainly some see very strong Biblical principles in the issue, but I think that the "whole picture" has to be taken together. Certainly some are convicted in this area, and others aren't. Some are "unnecessarily" convicted in areas where we don't have to be due to extrabiblical teaching. (seems to find extra fodder on the internet.)
Becky P.
www.famiy.solidrockpl.org
identicaltwin
New Member
Children are a blessing and inheritance from the Lord.
Did you know that until 1930 every Christian denomination condemned birth control?
And what did the 1930's bring us? Eugenics and poplulation control, as popularized by Margaret Sanger. Eugenics as practiced by Adolf Hitler. I believe that the "culture of death" can be directly traced to the increasing use of birth control.
In the sixties, we were told that the Pill would free us from the "burden" and "worry" of unwanted children and would strengthen marriages. What has happened since then? A skyrocketing divorce rate. The legalization of abortion. A coarsening of the culture.
More and more couples are beginning to use Natural Family planning. This is a natural way of birth control. The woman tracks her body's natural fertility cycles to either prevent or allow conception. When used by knowledgable couples who wish to prevent or space their children, it is 99% effective. The divorce rate for couples who practice it is less than 4%. One of the best side effects of NFP is that it brings the couple closer together, because together they have to make the decision to abstain or not during the woman's fertile time. If they wish to abstain they can find other ways to demonstrate their love for one another. It really is a life-giving lifestyle for the Christian couple.
The Couple to Couple website for more information on NFP is www.ccli.org.
Did you know that until 1930 every Christian denomination condemned birth control?
And what did the 1930's bring us? Eugenics and poplulation control, as popularized by Margaret Sanger. Eugenics as practiced by Adolf Hitler. I believe that the "culture of death" can be directly traced to the increasing use of birth control.
In the sixties, we were told that the Pill would free us from the "burden" and "worry" of unwanted children and would strengthen marriages. What has happened since then? A skyrocketing divorce rate. The legalization of abortion. A coarsening of the culture.
More and more couples are beginning to use Natural Family planning. This is a natural way of birth control. The woman tracks her body's natural fertility cycles to either prevent or allow conception. When used by knowledgable couples who wish to prevent or space their children, it is 99% effective. The divorce rate for couples who practice it is less than 4%. One of the best side effects of NFP is that it brings the couple closer together, because together they have to make the decision to abstain or not during the woman's fertile time. If they wish to abstain they can find other ways to demonstrate their love for one another. It really is a life-giving lifestyle for the Christian couple.
The Couple to Couple website for more information on NFP is www.ccli.org.
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dianetavegia
Guest
No Fair! I want to share too.
Erin had Nick when she was 19 and gave him up for adoption,.... to US. He's both my grandson and son.
Erin Elizabeth also has
Eden Elizabeth (4)
Kaylee Elizabeth (18 months)
Scott has
1 in heaven
Jackson Henry who will be 2 in Jan.
Jon isn't married and has no children.
Nicholas is 10 on my 54th birthday.
Diane Elizabeth who wants a LOT more grandkids!