Birth control and Christian colleges.

[joyfulkeeperathome]

If you want to know what the pill really does, go to the Library and look for the Physician's Desk Reference - PDR. This book has every drug in it and near the beginning of each description, it should tell how the pill works. If it says that it changes the lining of your uterus (endometrium) then that means it can cause an abortion! I looked up all the pills that I was aware of (I used to be a pharmacy technician, so I know quite a few of the medicines) and they all had that as one of the things they do. I'm sorry that you have to wait to have children according to the doctor. This decision is between you, God and your husband. Whatever you decide, could I suggest that you try a different type of birth control? NFP using your basal temp, and other body clues to know about when you ovulate has become pretty exact. If you want to know more about it, you can find lots of info online about it. I will be praying for you.

God has soooo much to say about birth control. He is most definetely not silent about it!! He tells us to trust him. The difference between using medicine to treat a disease and to prevent children is as different as night is to day. One (the disease) is a problem with your body. The other (pregnancy) is a blessing that God has given you. Study out the different times that God talks about opening and closing people's wombs. Check out the website www.quiverfull.com If you can, get your hands on the book, "A Full Quiver" by the Hess's. It's an excellent study.

I know that there are times when situations seem to dictate that birth control be used. That is between the couple and God. But for normal life, I don't see that as a viable option in the bible. Of course, we all have our different convictions and this is one of mine!!!!

 

[Rachel]

I just found out a few months ago that some pills are abortive, just by chance I heard it on the Christian talk radio. It's like this is top secret or something. I thought, why in the world isn't this talked about everywhere in Christian circles, radio, church, everywhere??! I don't believe very many people know about this at all. It's such an important topic, we need to be informed if what we are doing is killing babies! Doctor's sure won't say anything about it. Thank God I haven't taken b.c. pills because my hubby never trusted them. If I had been taking them and heard about this, I would have been devastated and always wondered how many children I killed!

I just hope this message spreads to every Christian out there.

Rachel

 

[Paul33]

Dr. Bob,

Thanks for your comments. I don't think that this discussion is a "shell" because it is connected with "Christian Colleges." The pastors of the future need to discuss this issue, and in most cases, they are only getting one side, if any. We have so pervasively bought into the world's thinking in this area that to bring it up results in "some" calling it absurd.

Certainly abortifacient birth control must be avoided. Many Christians don't know that the "pill" works as an abortifacient.

Barrier forms of birth control bring up a different issue. You are right when you say that the Bible is silent about "barrier" forms. Each couple needs to discern this issue for themselves. But wouldn't it be helpful if the Christian colleges discussed the issue instead of just taking your position that it is absurd to talk about birth control "possibly" being a detriment to one's Christian life?

Birth control puts the focus on the couple, instead of on God. Birth control (when it fails), causes couples to blame each other. So instead of rejoicing over being "with child," the couple is upset and angry - with each other, God, the child, etc.

Barrier methods may be acceptable if the couple understands that God is sovereign, and if they do become pregnant, the child needs to be viewed as a blessing. But that is a big challenge, even for mature couples. But you are right, we don't decide this for others dogmatically. But it doesn't hurt to discuss it from within the framework of a theology of children! We should be asking the question, "How does God view children and marriage?"

As to child spacing. Most women who breastfeed on demand, meaning no schedules, bottles, pacifiers, on average will cease ovulating for about 15 months. It just so happens that my children are all spaced more than two years apart through this method.

Also, the family bed, where the baby sleeps with the parents for the first years of his life also helps the baby feed all night if the baby so desires. Mom gets to sleep, the baby bonds with mom and dad. It works and its biblical.

Dr. Bob, the problem with birth control in general is the attitude it creates about children. Babies become "wanted" or "unwanted." And we all know what America does with "unwanted" babies. We abort them.

I'm writing my disertation on this topic. Eugenics and birth control laid the foundation for abortion on demand! In fact, we would never have gotten to the place of "abortion on demand"
if we hadn't first accepted "birth control." This was a huge shift from God-centered to man-centered.

I'm surprised that you can't see that.

 

[foxrev]

Dr. Bob says: "Absurd"

Look at the passages of scripture concerning child birth. Go tell Joni Ericson Tada that she should have listened to the professional "Opinion" of the Doctors. Go tell Evangelist Tom Williams he should have listend to the professional opinion of Doctors concerning his wife. There is the point of my statements concerning my Grandmother and friend in the South.

Are you advocating faith in men over Faith in God, Bob? I never said that we should not see a Doctor! However, they are men with limited minds and when it comes to whether you can or cannot have a child, that is up to GOD. Bottom line.

"Dr. Bob says:
Do you all really believe that? Common Puritan thought pre-Ben Franklin."


Why do you BASH and ASSAULT someone personally when we state our opinon? Is it really necessary to "Nuke" a brother in Christ with such language? Those Puritans were mighty fine folks as well, reformed thinkers too. Please stop denegrating them and us.

 

[FBCPastorsWife]

joyfulkeeper...thank you so much. I actually have a PDR at home, but I don't think my pill is listed in there. The book is from 2002 when I was in Dental Hygiene school. Of course I took Pharmacology too and I never heard one word about BC having abortive qualities. My heart is breaking right now!!!

 

[foxrev]

"Dr. Bob Says:
and not anecdotal stories about grandma . . . )

Is this really necessary for you to do? Excuse me, but I am here ONLY because my Grandparents trusted GOD and did not listen to MEN. Try it some time Bob. You will find great joy and reward in it!

Frankly it is irrelevant how many years you have of experience. So what. You can be wrong all of your life and that doesn't make it right or give you any more "authority" on a matter.

 

[Paul33]

FBCPastorsWife,

I'm sorry for your pain and suffering. I just want you to know that I'm praying for you.

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by FBCPastorsWife:
joyfulkeeper...thank you so much. I actually have a PDR at home, but I don't think my pill is listed in there. The book is from 2002 when I was in Dental Hygiene school. Of course I took Pharmacology too and I never heard one word about BC having abortive qualities. My heart is breaking right now!!!

Please continue to do research. According to the doctors I have consulted, including my family practice physician who is a pro-life Catholic, there is no such thing as "the pill". There are different types and strengths. Apparently, it is a misunderstanding that everyone of them works the same way.

Karen

 

[foxrev]

Paul 33 Says:
"We have so pervasively bought into the world's thinking in this area that to bring it up results in "some" calling it absurd.

BRAVO Paul!

Perhaps your paper will be turned into a papmphlet/book form! Mennonites have for a long time taken this same position here in Pennsylvania and do not even like children called "kids" and for good reason.

 

[joyfulkeeperathome]

FBCPastor'swife, if you can, find a library that has an updated version of the PDR that would have your pill in it. True, they don't all work the same way, some of them work primarily as an abortifacient while others work as an abortificiant as a backup. Either way, the possibility is there. Please don't beat yourself up about it. You didn't know, just like I didn't know. And I should have b/c I was around information about it all the time, I just didn't look deep enough. It was my understanding back then that some of them worked as abortificiants and others did not. However, I have found that that is not the case. Please do the research into it. And I don't believe that God holds us accountable for what we didn't know back then. I most likely did lose a baby b/c I was on the pill, maybe even more than one. I used to cry a lot thingking about it. But I can't dwell on that fact, I have to just go on and do the right thing with the information I have right now. Continuing to pray....

 

[FBCPastorsWife]

Thank you all for your kind words and prayers

And I most definitely will do research on "all" the meds I take. (About 40 pills a day)

 

[foxrev]

FBCPastorswife says:
I'm not even certain I will even be able to have children after all the therapies I have been on, many of which cause infertility. I know if I am supposed to have children I will. It's just a scary thought that some pills can be abortive.

We will surely be praying for you with this. God is good and as His child you have His divine favor - "He is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think." We have not an High Priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities. God is RICH in mercy and surely His Grace is greater. Remember Hannah!

 

[joyfulkeeperathome]

Wow, that's a lot of pills....

 

[Jensen]

There are many (even some who have posted on this thread) who believe that having children is a choice. It is a "choice" to use birth control, it is a "choice" to plan the size of the family...Man always has, and always will, try to "play" God! It is a choice? (sounds like Kerry & his "pro-choice" group!)... If it is a choice, then I am glad I didn't make that choice. Three months ago GOD gave me my fouth daughter (still not boys...but that's up to God...maybe one day it will be my "choice"---see where this can go!) and I can look at her an say I am glad I didn't choose to not allow God to give her to me!

"We" are against all the abortionists because of all the excuses they give to have an abortion....99.?% of them are selfishness & greed! The same goes with those with birth control...Trust God...He promised to take care of His sheep!

 

[joyfulkeeperathome]

It seems to often come down to this. Do you believe that pregnancy (the creation of a new life and soul) is the result of some biological factor?? If so, then sure, use birth control, that would make sense. But if you believe (as do I) that pregnancy (the creation of a new life and soul) is the resulf of God's decision to create life, ("In Him we live and move and have our being"), then birth control would be wrong b/c it is blocking what God wants to do for us.

 

[Dr. Bob]

You may not like my "nuking" your thinking, but since when does "God's will" mean that we quit thinking or using modern means or technology or lightning rods?

 

[foxrev]

Bob:

You better look at your post again. You not only nuked my thinking, but my character and that of my Grandparents.

We are thinking - thank you. It is a matter of trusting God. Not the intellect of men. Again, I NEVER said to NOT go see a Dr. However, their word is NOT FINAL. They know very little when it comes to the body and most doctors do not look at the body as being desinged by an all powerful, sovereign God. Todays Drs. are in first grade, not grad school. Sure, years ago the did not know as much as they do today. Still we have no cure for cancer and are in the dark about a host of afflictions, diseases, ailments etc. We are fearfully and wonderfully made - BY GOD not puny man.

"And of some have compassion. Let your speech be always with Grace."

[ October 21, 2004, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: foxrev ]

 

[FBCPastorsWife]

Originally posted by joyfulkeeperathome:
Wow, that's a lot of pills....

Yeppers...that is actually less than what I used to take. I take about 20 less than when I first got my transplant. Hopefully, after my thyroid medication kicks in and the weight drops off, I can stop taking the Blood Pressure meds.

I looked up the "pill" that I take. It looks a little sketchy to me. It started talking about "natural abortion" and it hasn't been determined with this pill if it causes the abortion, but they have found within the first 4 months that it can cause irreparable damage. So, I'm guessing that I should think about stopping this and relying on prayer.

 

[joyfulkeeperathome]

You can also use non-abortive methods such as barrier, spermicides, NFP, and a combination if that is what you feel you need to do at this time.

 

[FBCPastorsWife]

In addition to the pill we also use a male barrier. My problem...I'm allergic to latex Wowza!!!! Not a good situation.

BTW - what is NFP?