Birth Control ... Right or Wrong?

We do, we just believe God forced us to make that decision.

 

I agree, Bunyon. If one isn't sure when the soul enters the body, it seems they should prefer to err on the side of wisdom and caution just in case the soul enters the body at conception! Seems the argument would only be good for those who think they KNOW when the soul enters rather than for those who DO NOT KNOW.

 

Perhaps his plan is to give you enough intelligence to prevent pregnancy. Do you go to the doctor when you have a heart attack? Is that unfaithful? Perhaps that going contrary to God's plans for how long you're going to live! On the other hand, it could be God's will that he gave intelligence to those who are going to treat you.

I think that if God gave us the ability to prevent pregnancy (assuming that it's a form that doesn't kill a baby), and we are given to be good stewards over our planet, then it's completely selfish to continually increase our population to such ridiculous proportions.

 

I am in general agreement with Bunyon on the use of birth control pills. About 20 years ago a doctor told me that most birth control pills will abort a pregnancy if they do not first prevent it. Since that time I've seen no evidence to contradict that. But to me that speaks more to the issue of abortion/murder than the issue of birth control in general.

It seems to me that the original post by DeadMan asks if the concept of birth control is wrong in all of its various mutations - condoms, pills, patches, rhythm method, tubal ligation, etc. If not, then I am asking it here. Is the very idea of birth control wrong, or are only certain methods of birth control wrong, or are all methods of birth control allowed?

Interesting would be more scriptures from both sides, and I'd especially be interested in hearing more than arguments from silence from the "pro-birth control" side, seeing that most would agree that God's original blessings favor having children.

Thanks.

 

menageriekeeper I agree

DeadMan how do you know Gods plan isn't for man to use his brain and use the methods he has provided through doctors to decide how many kids he and his wife can handle? Like it has been said if God wants you to have more, he will over ride birth control.

I personally do not believe God is in control of our free will, even though I am on the side of election. But if it is his ultimate will we have more kids, than I have all the confidence he will give us more. I personally would rather adopt children who need homes and loving parnets, than to over populate with my own.

 

I just read Hope Of Glorys post looks like we were on the same thought

 

Does this mean you think God murders all those poor babies that fail to implant? What about those that miscarry because of any of a number of other things that happen before a woman even knows she is pregnant? Did God murder those babies?

It is you who uses faulty logic by comparing BC to coldblooded murder. If God put in place the means for the body to naturally reject a pregnancy, then at what point does it become murder for us to encourage those naturally occuring conditions in order to prevent pregnancy?

Now lets take your own logic a step further:

If encouraging the body to not accept a pregnancy shows lack of faith in God, then ENCOURAGING the body to accept a pregnancy would also show such lack of faith. Hmmm, I don't see any threads here on fertility treatments. Wonder why not? Are those poor ladies who desparately want a child not showing the same selfishness and lack of faith as the women who desparately don't want another child?

Is it really selfish to not want a child you know you can't provide for?

Now, ya'll already know I'm a liberal. So you won't be surprised to find out that I don't believe that God places within us our soul at the point where sperm fertilizes eggs. Knowing that the chances of getting pregnant aren't just dependent on fertilization, but a host of other things and believing that God does know who will be born and also that human product that won't be born, I don't believe He wastes "soul material"(whether because of a natural causes or not). Would He really want a heaven full of those who have never tasted life and can't understand what all the fuss was about?

Now as for my beliefs about abortion. I believe there becomes a time when abortion is not murder, a time when it becomes distasteful and a time when it becomes murder. It is not murder when a fertilized egg is prevented from implanting. It is distasteful at the point to which a woman is aware she is pregnant, but before there is actual heart and brain activity, it is probably not murder. By the time most abortions are committed in this country it is murder. At this point there is enough developement that the baby can feel and sense things outside of itself.

Hmmm, I guess I was selfish and faithless a bunch in my life cause I used BC and fertility treatments at different times but for the same reason. To place the birth of my children at times when I felt I was in a better position to care for them.

Bitsy was God's plan----wait how'd that happen? God was powerful enough to smack me upside the head and give me a child I didn't think I needed? Could that be? Even while I was being selfish and faithless? My goodness I serve an awesome God!

 

When we were dating, my wife had a great birth control method. "NO!!!" Worked great. After we got married we used the pill for a few years. It was only recently that we discovered that they depend on aborting the pregnancy post conception. I am in favor of heading them off at the pass before conception but after that it is too late.

 

So much for "Thy will and not mine be done".

 

Does this mean you think God murders all those poor babies that fail to implant"-----------------------------------------------------------------

You are all over the map with your logic, and you are asking crazy questions. It seems you just want to introduce confusion to muddy the waters. A zygot failing to implant naturally is no more God murdering than a person being murdered is God murdering them. Quit being silly. If you are ok with abortion than it makes since that you are ok with BCP's. End of story.

 

I find this a strange bit of "logic". If God doesn't waste soul material, would He really want heaven full of those who live only 30 minutes or a day or two after birth, and can't understand what all the fuss was about?

 

Oh no, it is your logic I'm arguing with, Bunyon. It was you who introduced cold blooded murder into the mix.

Now answer the question, if God can put into our bodies the natural mechanisms that keep us from actually getting pregnant, at what point does it become murder(abortion) for us to encourage our bodies to not become pregnant? Zygotes fail to implant quite often, there are also other reasons for failing to become or stay pregnant. When is the line crossed from not murder to murder of the unborn?

I could make the point that preventing the sperm from fertilizing the egg to be murder of the unborn.(remember God took a man's life for this, Gen.38:9) We would be preventing the possible birth of a child by keeping sperm out of the womb.

Now go back and answer the question. If even one zygote fails to implant for a natural reason, then how does it become murder for us to encourage what can happen naturally?

 

rlvaughn, it is all strange logic. Our ways are not God's ways and now we are presuming to go past God's word and say that this or that is sin without scripture to back us up. In this particualar case, we have no idea if a soul enters a human at conception or if it enters in upon first breath as it did Adam. The answer to that question is what will determine whether or not BC pills cause abortion/murder.

 

I hope you don't drive that way, or feel that way when you are dealing with the doctor, dentist, vet, pharmacist, electrical plug ins, weather, food, your young children crossing the street, snakes, etc. I could be misunderstanding your thoughts, though, I do things like that a lot.

 

mk,

the problem with your logic on this issue is that if GOD decides to prevent a child's birth by the lady having a natural miscarriage, than that is not murder. God has the power to give and take life without us having the gall to call Him a murderer for it. I know that sounds strong, and Im not trying to be haughty with you, honest.

But MK, you have now in 2 or 3 posts posited the question that if God causes a miscarriage does that mean He murdered them? No.....because God is GOD. WE are NOT God. When WE knowingly "cause" a miscarriage (abortion) than it IS murder. The two cannot be compared, because God has authoritative rights that we as humans do not have.

I would also like to ask, why is it that the issue of "not being able to take care of the children" even being brought up? It is as if people are assuming that those who wish to let God decide are necessarily not going to be able to afford children. As if God cannot care for those He gives us!

Lastly, Ive seen several posts that say we ought to adopt kids in order to not "overpopulate" the planet........I would say that perhaps that is also a valid point in a discussion of infertility treatments.....but I think that perhaps it would not be taken well by those who desparately want their own children.

 

Bunyon is correct that one mechanism that the BCP works is by altering the uterline lining to prevent implantation of fertilized eggs. It should be kept in mind that the two primary mechanisms are 1) preventing ovulation and 2) thickening of the cervical mucosa to prevent sperm reaching the egg. Bunyon's numbers of 90% and 99% are speculation because it is difficult if not impossible to actually measure the frequency of which the first two mechanisms fail and the third mechanism is relied upon.

I believe most protestants have no problem with barrier or timing methods of birth control. Catholics encourage Natural Family Planning which uses a combination of body temperature, timing and other factors to determine periodic abstinence.

 

I think Babpmom answered well. So I'll let that stand. But do you see the danger of your logic. With your logic it would be perfectly normal to promote the death of an old person since it will happen naturally anyhow.

 

I hope you don't drive that way, or feel that way when you are dealing with the doctor, dentist, vet, pharmacist, electrical plug ins, weather, food, your young children crossing the street, snakes, etc. I could be misunderstanding your thoughts, though, I do things like that a lot. </font>[/QUOTE]I try to live my entire life that way. When driving I obey the laws of the authorities -- the laws of the road -- as commanded by His Word. With EVERYTHING in life I try to live following His guidance through the Holy Spirit. It doesn't matter what it is. HIS will be done. Period.

Of course I see medical practitioners. But I also pray God will give them wisdom and then even about the advice I am given.

How could I not pray for His will in everything?

Our Father who art in heaven
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come,
Thy will be done
On earth as it is in heaven...

Sound familiar?

 

Gold dragon, I did not give exact numbers. But my approximations are going to be in the Ball park. We know how effective an-ovulation only pills are, the difference should be a good ball-park figure on how often the secondary mechanism is the fail safe. Actually, that is a good way to describe it. The changes in the uterine mucosa are the fail safe that allows us to obtain 99+ percent effectiveness. We could not get within 3-4 percent of that effectiveness without the "fail safe". So if you are relying on BCP's, the fail safe will come into play several times a year at least.

And Manag, I never said "cold blooded".

 

So, then, can't the same logic be applied to using the intelligence God gave us to stop overpopulating? Are we not supposed to be good stewards of our planet?