Bishop Harry Jackson, Jr. calls abortion a major crime

[Crabtownboy]

That is the most retarded form of logic I have ever heard.

Read the answer. That is what he seems to be saying. I agree it is not well thought out ... or are you simply saying the young man has no responsibility. Funny for a preacher to defend the sin of a young man ... but men often do that.

 

[Revmitchell]

Read the answer. That is what he seems to be saying. I agree it is not well thought out ... or are you simply saying the young man has no responsibility. Funny for a preacher to defend the sin of a young man ... but men often do that.

That's right. Simply impregnating her does not automatically make one responsible for an abortion. Sane people understand this.

 

[Crabtownboy]

That's right. Simply impregnating her does not automatically make one responsible for an abortion. Sane people understand this.

Well let's clarify things a little bit.

1. Are you saying that if she has the baby he should/should not have any responsibility for the baby?

2. If she obtains an abortion he has no responsibility, even though he is the father?
a. What if he approves of the abortion?
b. What if he pressures he to have the abortion?

3. Are you saying that if he opposes the abortion and she has one that he still bares no responsiblity for putting her in the situation where she had to make the decision?

Just to clarify things a bit more let me say that I am opposed to abortions, but do feel that if they are made illegal than the man should also bear some responsiblity as he surely is a part of the equation. If illegal should he receive equal punishment? I am still thinking over that question.

Why any punishment for the young man?
1-he is the father.
2-he put the young woman in the situation where she has to make a decision.
3-perhaps if a young man knew that punishment was a possiblility he might show more restraint in his sexual activities.
:tonofbricks:

 

[Matt Black]

Frankly if she had said no instead of giving herself to a man then there would be no need for an abortion. The woman does have a choice. If she gives herself to a man then she and the man bare a responsibility to the coming child.

What if she's raped?

 

[Palatka51]

What if she's raped?

I will concede that there is no easy answer for such case. However I still feel that the child conceived in such a nature is human and a creation of God. The only way I can answer this is to put myself in such a scenario. Being a man I would have to assume that my wife were the one attacked. Through my counsel I would pray that my wife bare the child and we raise it or seek to give it up to adoption. If she should decide to abort it I would be in sore distress. I as a man have no voice under current law and because I do love my wife it would not be easy to not honor her decision. IMO to kill the child would be wrong and as simple wisdom dictates, "Two wrongs do not make a right".

By all that is Godly the child should live.

 

[Palatka51]

As it should be. It isn't the man who is pregnant. Hopefully, the husband and wife could talk through it, but ultimately, it is, and should be, her decision.

It is too late for her choice after a life is conceived. Her choice was before the first button was loosed. She gave up her choice to be single and chose to be a mother. Her next choice is does she keep it or to whom does she give this child too. Death is not the choice of life and never should be. That is as it should be.

I'll never understand a Christian's advocacy for murder.

 

[billwald]

God called a miscarriage caused by a 2nd party a property crime. Argue with God.

 

[just-want-peace]

God called a miscarriage caused by a 2nd party a property crime. Argue with God.

Exodus 21:
22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,---

So if one kills a "property"(?), his life is to be taken?:BangHead:

 

[dragonfly]

Exodus 21:
22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,---

So if one kills a "property"(?), his life is to be taken?:BangHead:

This would apply if we were Jewish and lived during the time of Moses, but it has no validity today in the United States of America.

 

[Palatka51]

This would apply if we were Jewish and lived during the time of Moses, but it has no validity today in the United States of America.

Can you just imagine what society would be like if that were true. If your statement were true then that would be true for the following scripture as well.

Exodus 20:12-17
12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13Thou shalt not kill.
14Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15Thou shalt not steal.
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

 

[just-want-peace]

This would apply if we were Jewish and lived during the time of Moses, but it has no validity today in the United States of America.

C'mon dragonfly, read in context!!:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:

 

[dragonfly]

Can you just imagine what society would be like if that were true. If your statement were true then that would be true for the following scripture as well.

Exodus 20:12-17
12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13Thou shalt not kill.
14Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15Thou shalt not steal.
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

I'm not saying that principles drawn from the OT would not be applicable in creating many of today's laws; I'm just saying that we don't live under the Jewish Covenant today.

 

[Crabtownboy]

:tonofbricks:

That's right. Simply impregnating her does not automatically make one responsible for an abortion. Sane people understand this.

Is this what you tell your teenage males in your church?

 

[Matt Black]

I will concede that there is no easy answer for such case. However I still feel that the child conceived in such a nature is human and a creation of God. The only way I can answer this is to put myself in such a scenario. Being a man I would have to assume that my wife were the one attacked. Through my counsel I would pray that my wife bare the child and we raise it or seek to give it up to adoption. If she should decide to abort it I would be in sore distress. I as a man have no voice under current law and because I do love my wife it would not be easy to not honor her decision. IMO to kill the child would be wrong and as simple wisdom dictates, "Two wrongs do not make a right".

By all that is Godly the child should live.

Thanks; I would agree. I was just challenging the assumption that a woman always 'chooses' to get pregnant or at least to run the risk of getting pregnant.

[Tangent] Much as I admire the stand of the subject of the OP, I find it hard to regard someone who's not consecrated in Apostolic Succession as a 'bishop' in any meaningful sense of that word[/tangent]

 

[Palatka51]

I'm not saying that principles drawn from the OT would not be applicable in creating many of today's laws; I'm just saying that we don't live under the Jewish Covenant today.

Can you just imagine what society would be like if that were true. If your statement were true then that would be true for the following scripture as well.

Exodus 20:12-17
12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13Thou shalt not kill.
14Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15Thou shalt not steal.
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

I am saying that you nor I can take certain scripture that does not fit the comfort zone of our life and toss it away if it upsets our conscience. If it is upsetting then I must open mine eyes to it's truth, confess my sin before God and go and sin no more.

 

[billwald]

Exodus 21:
22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,---

But if SHE suffers no serious injury . . .