Bishop's Letter on Unjustness of Iraq War

Then why have a pope at all ?

 

Brother Curtis,

Reread my post. This question has already been answered.

God bless,

Grant

 

I have done an extensive study of Rom 14 and I have found nothing within that text that spoke against me condemning the Catholic "Church".
The organization is a cult on a collision course with hell. I do not support any "church" that says one can be saved out side of comming through Jesus Christ. May I suggest John ch 14 "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man commeth unto the Father but by ME..." Not Mary, not a slobbering old man in diapers, not the 7 sacraments, not even by an indulgence.

Furthermore I do not support any "church" that uses any other book that the Holy Bible. The Apocrapha is no more inspired by God that Moby Dick.

This is a BAPTIST BOARD, not a catholic board...
Maybe the following message boards would be more receptive to your outrages views:
http://www.catholicmingle.com
http://www.catholic.org/prwire/headline.php?ID=289
http://www.ecatholic2000.com/index2.html

 

The fruits of private interpretation. Lovely.

Ignorance is bliss, I suppose. Mind backing up your statement?

Catholics are saved...through Mary. Amazing. Mind backing that up?

Mighty hateful language for someone who is condemning others. If you think that this makes you Christian...please don't count me as part of the same club.

That's like saying "The Bible doesn't bring salvation...only Jesus does." Which is the case, and yet the Bible is essential to your salvation, because it brings the Truth OF Jesus to you. Your argument makes no sense.

Considering an indulgence has nothing to do with salvation, I'll have to agree with you.

Because you are an expert on inspired texts, no doubt. Why, I'm sure you that if I pulled out a random Bible verse from the protestant canon and one from the Catholic canon that you'd be able to tell the difference...right? Oh, and you got the Sacred Scriptures...how? Oh yeah, prepacked by a publishing company. You accept the Bible to be inspired by faith...the faith passed onto you from your parents, friends, congregations, spiritual leaders, etc. God didn't throw it in your lap and say, "Look! My inspired Word!"

I think you mean "outragious," considering you are the one who seems to be "outraged." And I guess what you are trying to tell me is that the Baptist denomination is one of intolerance of other religions that you disagree with...this in a board called "Other Religions/Denominations." Wow, you are spot on today!

I hope your Baptist brethren don't all agree with you in your methods.

God bless,

Grant

 

"Mind backing up your statement?"
I already have backed it up with the inspired Word of God- John 14.6

"Catholics are saved...through Mary. Amazing. Mind backing that up?"
Sure they claim that they don't worship Mary...But for a group that "doesn't worship her" they sure do pray to her a lot.
"Hail Mary, full of grace, mother of God...Have mercy on us."

"Mighty hateful language for someone who is condemning others. If you think that this makes you Christian...please don't count me as part of the same club."

Here is a man who makes himself equal to God. What do you want me to do, worship the ground he walks on?

That's like saying "The Bible doesn't bring salvation...only Jesus does." Which is the case, and yet the Bible is essential to your salvation, because it brings the Truth OF Jesus to you. Your argument makes no sense.

The seven sacraments are a series of works, which are relied upon for salvation.

Considering an indulgence has nothing to do with salvation, I'll have to agree with you.

During the Middle Ages the Catholic Church sold a lot of them inorder "to forgive sins."

Because you are an expert on inspired texts, no doubt. Why, I'm sure you that if I pulled out a random Bible verse from the protestant canon and one from the Catholic canon that you'd be able to tell the difference...right? Oh, and you got the Sacred Scriptures...how? Oh yeah, prepacked by a publishing company. You accept the Bible to be inspired by faith...the faith passed onto you from your parents, friends, congregations, spiritual leaders, etc. God didn't throw it in your lap and say, "Look! My inspired Word!"

I agree, God didn't throw it in my lap and say "Look! My inspired Word!"
However, the Bible wasn't passed down to me from my parents, friends, congregation, spiritual leaders...- I was raised in the Church of Christ, however early on in life I noticed that the "church's" doctrine didn't add up. Before I ever met a Baptist I realized that one was saved by accepting Christ and by that only.
Now my entire family has followed my lead and we're all a happy family in an Independent Baptist Church...

I think you mean "outragious," considering you are the one who seems to be "outraged." And I guess what you are trying to tell me is that the Baptist denomination is one of intolerance of other religions that you disagree with...this in a board called "Other Religions/Denominations." Wow, you are spot on today!

I hope your Baptist brethren don't all agree with you in your methods.

God bless,

Grant

No I believe outrages is right... but you are right, the Baptist Denomination is intollerant of other religions that are blatantly anti-Christ which is what we are commanded to do. However if you are implying that we hate the sinner you got it all wrong. I don't have the slightest degree of hate for Catholics, Muslims, Mormons, or even athiest I realize that it is only by the grace of God that I'm not in that exact same situation.

I'm sorry that you have misunderstood me, and I trust that all your questions where answered.
Thanks and May the Lord Bless,
Baptist Tape Maker

[ April 12, 2003, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: The Baptist Tape Maker ]

 

That justifies that the Catholic Church is an institution on a collision course with hell? Riiiiight. Try again.

Wow. Perhaps you might like the real prayer:

Hail Mary, full of grace. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of they womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God. Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death."

Your proof was so good...that it wasn't proof at all. I am supposed to believe that you possess the truth when you condemned with false evidence?

"Mighty hateful language for someone who is condemning others. If you think that this makes you Christian...please don't count me as part of the same club."

Here is a man who makes himself equal to God. What do you want me to do, worship the ground he walks on?</font>[/QUOTE]1. He does no equate himself with God.
2. You are using the argument of the papacy to attack ONE MAN, John Paul II, for you attacked his physical demeanor, not his office, the church, or anything surrounding that. You hurled an insult that has nothing to do with the papacy.
3. The line between worshipping the ground he walks on and showing basic human dignity is as wide as the Pacific. You crossed the line.

You haven't proved that they are works, and based on your above behavior, and complete lack of evidence for a postition you hold by faith, I don't see any reason to trust this statement either. If it was the truth, you wouldn't give me opinion.

You are absolutely correct. And these priests and pope(s) who were pushing this were going against established church doctrine. Further, the doctrine was further clarified to prevent a repeat occurence, and it is not a current problem in the church, although you push that it is (again, with no evidence).

So, in other words, you completely avoided my question, which has nothing to do with how you accepted Christ as your savior, but rather how that faith came to you, by the Word of God, and where you get the Word of God from.

You haven't shown by any stretch that Catholicism is anti-Christ. Even your opinions go unsupported. So, instead I see you being disrespectful (insulting and the like) and misquoting (the Hail Mary) because you have personal bias and complete lack of understanding of the Catholic faith. It is very different than your own, yes, and it is much easier to condemn than to understand. I respect those who are not Catholic after attempting to understand the faith; you have not done so. You would rather stay in ignorance.

Right. You have shown GREAT LOVE for John Paul II, haven't you. Practice what you preach, please.

I understand you completely; you don't understand the Catholic faith, which you have made VERY obvious, and you reject false notions of things we don't even believe. Good for you; I reject those things to. Thank God the Catholic faith is not based on these things!

God bless you as well,

Grant

 

Just to let the Catholics know that not all Baptists have bigoted opinions. I am happy to acknowledge anyone who holds Jesus Christ to be their Lord and Saviour as a brother or sister in Christ, regardless of denomination.

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

So let me get this straight...

The pope is infallable. His word is inspired by God himself.

Yet you are free to disagree, even members of his church.

But the Catechism says you can't be saved if you reject the truth of the church. (Disagree if you wish, that is what it says.)

Round and round we go,

 

Matt, rejecting blasphemy doesn't make you a bigot. Unless you can prove otherwise.

 

Bro. Curtis,

The Pope's word is only infallible in certain occasions. His opinions on the war CLEARLY do not meet the criteria for an infallible statement. You may chose to ignore this and keep on spouting off that he is always infallible, but you would be misrepresenting Catholic teaching, and you won't show anything.

I am free to disagree on fallible statements, yes!

The Pope's stance on the ar is not a "truth of the Church." But thanks for playing.

Yup, and it would stop if you would open your ears and listen when we explain things to you instead of playing the game you are right now.

God bless,

Grant

 

Curtis,

Telling us that Catholics believe in blasphemy doesn't make you possess the truth either. It merely means you have opinions and the freedom to voice them.

God bless,

Grant

 

I don't posess truth either, Grant. It's in the Bible, not out of any man's mouth. Don't take what I say as truth, rather, compare it with scripture. If I am wrong, it will be apparant.

And your Catechism does say when the Pope speaks about matters of the faith, he is never wrong. That's what it says.

 

I have done that. And I became Catholic because of it. Thanks.

No, Curtis, afraid not. He is never wrong when he speaks about matters of faith or morals...AND is speaking to the ENTIRE CHURCH worldwide, and is making a pronouncement that is to be binding upon all Catholics thereafter.

Whether or not the US attacking the Iraqi regime is a just war...is a matter of faith? that pertains to all Catholics worldwide?

No to both of those.

God bless,

Grant

 

Sounds like double speak, to me.

Anyhoo, this war has turned out to be a good thing for the Gospel of Christ. Did you see that gorgeous woman holding up the "Thank you America" sign ? She made the sign of the cross, and I rejoiced. Because we know that with the Catholic church being there, somebody will eventually read their bible, and return to New Testament faith. Like it or not, funamentalism follows Catholicism.

 

Oh, BTW, it's nice to see you. My time is very limited, so it's always nice to hear from my RCC brothers.

 

they sure are.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

hrmmm... are Catholics Muslim or are Muslims Catholic... are either Christian?

 

There is zero element of double speak, and since you didn't bother to explain why, I will assume that I am correct.

Infallible pronouncements, at minimum, will contain somewhere in them that the faithful are required to believe it. Where is the double speak? There has been nothing of the sort attached to the Pope's speaking out against the war.

Why don't you drop on by our Easter Vigil service this Saturday night. 28 people are coming into the Church, about 20 from fundamentalist backgrounds.

Yes, it IS nice to see people returning to the New Testament faith! I like to call said faith "Catholic."

God bless,

Grant

 

they sure are.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

hrmmm... are Catholics Muslim or are Muslims Catholic... are either Christian? </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for returning with all your warmth, Rakka.

Oh, and could you please tell me...

When you say that Jesus "died for all," does that mean He really died for all? Or is that just a funky saying of Jesus that you don't really believe in.

See, as I believe it, Jesus DID die for all, and therefore, all, including Muslims, are included in God's PLAN for salvation. I do not believe the certain people are predestined for hell, but that all have the chance to be saved, and as the Catechism states, this includes the Muslims.

Not all Catholics will be saved, and the Catechism is explicit about this. We have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. So, if you want to keep on believing that while we believe that, that we state that all Muslims go to heaven, then you keep on believing that. Ignorance is bliss, so they say.

Me, on the other hand, I will continue to pray for the conversion of all of our Muslim brothers and sisters, and realize that BECAUSE Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, that He can save those ignorant of Him because of His infinite mercy.

That includes Muslims. And Jews. And atheists. All have an equal chance of being saved and spending eternity with God, and ALL are included in God's plan for salvation because God died on the cross FOR ALL.

God bless,

Grant

 

thanks for your impudent sarcasm.

where did I say "Jesus died for all"?

it is obvious, that even though the gift of salvation is available to all, those that do not accept it are not saved.

it seems your personal interpretation is wrong.

John.14
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John.3
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

NOT of works.

Eph.2
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

are they saved or not? if they are, they dont need to be converted.

they have a chance if they believe and repent... this ain't a lottery.

 

Rakka,

Your response to my post...didn't address anything at all about what I was talking about. So, if you want to play that way, I guess this line of conversation is done. If you wish to really read what I said, feel free to.

God bless,

Grant