BJU?

We used to listen to Dr. Sightler on the radio.

 

Window Wax, have you visited the schools you mention? Your own personality would play a big part in how you would fit in at the different institutions. Visiting the schools might clarify things in your mind and help you see how each school might prepare you for different types of ministry.

I think Tabernacle has already been adequately described on the forum. NGC has definitely seen a turnaround in the last few years reflective of the larger movement in the denomination. I have several friends who are teaching there now. Culturally it is much different from the other two schools you are considering. If you are very conservative culturally (music/dress/etc) you might not be comfortable there. On the other hand, they have been hiring a lot of grads from BJU, so even that may slowly be changing.

 

One of the things that helped me was financial aid. Not sure if any of the schools you're considering might accept Pell grants and such, but I found that to be helpful. If you have been a resident of the state which you plan to attend college, there can often be significant help there as well.

Another thing you might try are CLEP (College Level Entrance Proficiency) tests. Passing one of these can get you out of certain clases (usually freshman level) with equivalent credit (I got credit for English and Biology this way). There are books you can get to help you freshen up on the topics.

But, even with that- be prepared to work hard, live tightly, get less sleep, and take longer than four years to get your degree, if need be. It will be a sacrifice, but it can be done.

And, just for the record, my wife and I both got our Bachelor degrees after we were married- and when I graduated, we had two children.

 

There are many high-brow liberal seminaries that give a supposedly good education but I don't know that's it is superior to a Bible institute education if it causes a person to lose his faith and become apostate. A case in point is Ernest Campbell who went BJU (actually BJC) and Union Seminary, where he lost his faith, and later pastored Riverside Church (Fosdick's church). He reputedly said, “I got my wife at BJU (BJC) but I got my theology at Union.” Some testimony, huh? If you remember your Fundamentalist history, it was because of liberalism and apostasy that independent Fundamentalist schools were founded. Academics are not the sole criteria for choosing a school.

Then, there’s the question of individual abilities, etc. IMHO, there is a place for the less than superior academic institutions. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Bible institute if it does not award doctorates for institute level work*. The prevailing view of education, as discussed on this board and thread, seems to be a classical humanistic view of human potential whereas a Biblical stewardship view is completely foreign to these discussions (cf. I Cor. 4:1-7). After all, some of the degree-accredited snobs are not quite as intellectual and well-educated as they would like to think.

Finally, Larry said, “I think a good liberal arts education with a solid seminary degree is the minimum for a man who wants to pastor.” This is blatant nonsense. It’s pure pabulum for those who like for others to masticate and digest their food for them before swallowing. A thousand cases in point prove this wrong. Bad opinion.

*The questions of open admissions and everyone deserves a first-class education is fraught with folly and idiocy. Only a few can really sustain the rigor of a truly first-rate education. The rigor and level of scholarship demanded by even accredited institutions has steeply declined in the past quarter century. With enough perseverance, the average person can get an accredited doctorate today. My point is that we need schools with different levels of academic standards to educate the broadest population without pulling down the school with the highest standards. Think about it.

 

Thank you for proving my point. You are a know-it-all and fit my stereotype to a tee. I can read your insipid materialism, arrogance, and ignorance between the lines. The most pitiful person is the one “who knows not and knows not that he knows not.” I doubt that you have anything to teach me. If you don’t like the South, then that’s fine. Who cares? Opinions of Yankees have never bothered us. The thing that we can never understand is why you folks can’t stay in the North, mind your own business, and keep your mouth shut without coming down here to Dixie and telling us how to run our business. We really don’t care how you do it up North.

Here’s a bit of wisdom: “It is better to be thought a fool by remaining silent than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt!”

 

Well, are you a BoJo'er? You really didn't specifically deny it. Are you ashamed? Peer pressure on the board?

(BTW, there's no contradiction here. What kind of spin are you trying to give this thing? Lots of MI come to BoJo and go back home with a smug feeling of knowing it all. Lots of BoJo guys visited TBC and went home with your expressed attitude. Of course, they never really understood anything about the South--they were in culure shock. I'm really surprised that you derived your expert knowledge about TBC from the radio without having visited the ministry or knowing any folks from there. Seems a like lean on the first-hand knowledge to me.)

 

You may not agree with it, brother, but PL did begin his statement by saying "I think." It is offered as his opinion.

I understand the point you are trying to make about the exception. Men like Bob Ketcham, Vance Havner, and Spurgeon all had very effective ministries without formal educations. However, you could point to other well-trained men throughout history who have also been effctive who have earned doctorates. PL was making the point that he recommends preparation. I have no problem with that, even though I am a pastor who doesn't have the type of eductaion he recommends. I think what we have to recognize is that many of the men who have been exceptions are just that. Most people don't have the discernment and discipline to be effective without a formal education. Many people will also be winnowed out through the education process, sparing congregations potential heartache and turmoil due to ineffective leadership.

And then some go to teach in college and seminary...

 

Is this an educated and cosmopolitan viewpoint acclimated to diversity?

You’re way off base here! You are imposing and associating a BJU viewpoint with TBC. Robbie Mullenix (TBC music director) does some pretty contemporary sounding (keyboard and all) music to my ears. BTW, you should listen to WTBI before making your parallels.

Furthermore, you obviously don’t understand the objections to contemporary type worship services by Fundamentalists, especially the Southern gospel crowd. Seems that you’re nitpicking points to try and refute my posts. However, the funny thing is that your points are non-points. You don’t know what you’re talking about since you attribute attitudes and views to people that do not hold same.

BTW, this Southern style of preaching includes such mean as R.G. Lee, Jimmy Draper, etc. even though there are individual variations.

 

Yeah, I really liked and admired Dr. Parker. None of his imitators ever lived up to his style.

 

paidagogos,

Well said. You should have shut your mouth along time ago!

 

This quote implies that higher education and faith are somehow inimical. If our faith is true that cannot be. I agree that Godless higher education is useless, but God-centered higher education can only be beneficial. In depth exposure to theology, philosophy, history, and biblical languages will prepare a preacher to minister the Word to a diverse congregation. Good training will teach how to think, not simply spoonfeed interpretations.

Campbell's primary problem was an unbelieving heart, not higher education. This became evident when he went to an unbelieving seminary and subsequently rejected the faith.

 

This quote implies that higher education and faith are somehow inimical. If our faith is true that cannot be. I agree that Godless higher education is useless, but God-centered higher education can only be beneficial. In depth exposure to theology, philosophy, history, and biblical languages will prepare a preacher to minister the Word to a diverse congregation. Good training will teach how to think, not simply spoonfeed interpretations.

Campbell's primary problem was an unbelieving heart, not higher education. This became evident when he went to an unbelieving seminary and subsequently rejected the faith. </font>[/QUOTE]No, you’re reading into my statement something that I did not say or imply. My whole point is that by making academics the primary criterion for choosing a seminary, some have gone to liberal seminaries and made shipwreck of their faith. On the other hand, I challenge my students to think, not memorize and regurgitate. Sadly enough, few schools or teachers encourage meticulous thinking today. Even the most rigorous part of seminary, the Biblical languages, is usually taught by memorization.

Although there is no special virtue in ignorance and stupidity, I will argue that goodness, integrity, righteousness, love, justice, and holiness are far superior to mere intellectual attributes which Solomon described as soap bubbles. Not everyone can be intellectually superior but anyone can do right. Perhaps we are glamorizing and promoting the wrong thing. Many times, educational attainment and intellectual advantage translate into pride which is sinful. The Gospel message, salvation, and righteous living are simple ideas that are within the reach of anyone. We are not better Christians by our intellects.

BTW, I don’t think that you can accuse me of spewing out any spoon-fed thoughts from my computer even though I have challenged a lot of spoon-fed pabulum. Like Pascal, I think no one should study theology before he has mastered physics and the calculus. What do you think?

 

So is most of the music coming out of Soundforth these days. CCM by a different name. Same as Majesty and the Wilds too. So what?


As far as edicatin' I don't think you have to choose between sound theology and good academics. There are several schools that have both. And both are important.

 

What Soundforth pieces do you classify as CCM? Or what Wilds?

Andy

 

If you are Southern Baptist and want to stay close to home go to North Greenville or Anderson College. They are both fully accredited and have first rate faculty and a wonderful atmosphere.

If you are Independent Fundamental you'll be right at home at BJU. But you'll get a better education at North Greenville or Anderson.

 

[snip]But you'll get a better education at North Greenville or Anderson. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh, I don't know--it seems that BJU graduates score significantly higher on nationally standardized graduate school admission tests than NGC or Anderson College graduates (e.g GRE, GMAT, LSAT, MAT, MCAT, et. al.). So, upon what do you base your opinion?

 

IMHO, it appears that some place too much faith in accreditation. How do you reconcile graduates of an unaccredited school (e.g. BJU) consistently outscoring graduates of accredited schools on graduate admissions tests?

 

So is most of the music coming out of Soundforth these days. CCM by a different name. Same as Majesty and the Wilds too. So what?


As far as edicatin' I don't think you have to choose between sound theology and good academics. There are several schools that have both. And both are important. </font>[/QUOTE]Are you speaking of CCM as a genre (i.e. type or style) or generically as anything written in this generation?

 

Study to show thyself approved, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed.