Black Baptists and Muhammad Ali

[JamesL]

I was visiting Louisville, Kentucky this past week, and dropped by a Black Baptist church for Sunday Service.

I was a little perplexed when one of the deacons stood for opening prayer and devoted no less than 10 minutes to thanking God for a newly departed brother, praising this brother for his efforts in the plight of the African American, etc...

He didn't mention the name of this newly departed brother, but it just felt as if he might be talking about the boxer. Interesting.

A few minutes later, during a devotional period, a video was shown. It was a 7-8 minute applauding Ali for his stance as a conscientious objector to war, based on religious conviction.

Another prayer was offered a little later, thanking God for this great man of faith whom God had blessed 20th century Black America with.

Both preachers mentioned this son of Louisville with thankful expression.

After the sermons, the Children's Church was brought to the front, where the leader gushed for 5 minutes over Ali, then each child read quotes of Ali, lasting approximately 15 minutes. Afterward, the leader gushed again for a couple of minutes about Ali's faith, character, personality, etc.

So here Iwas after service was over, nearly speechless.

Are these "Christians" aware that they were praising a Muslim's faith? I couldn't help asking one person - uh, this whole Ali thing...is that a black thing or a Louisville thing? He said "probably both"

So here I am now. I'm curious what Baptists here think. Not about Ali, but the church I visited.

What do you think about Baptists devoting almost an entire service to a Muslim?

Or so you think Blacks honoring a Black was more the theme?

Maybe a civil rights memorial?

As a note, I specifically asked if there was a memorial for Prince, who was a Jehovah's Witness? Nope.

I also noticed in the video there were shots of Jesse Jackson with Ali, and MLK jr. with Ali.

Do you think civil rights is an important enough issue to where the church ought to embrace as brothers anyone who champions the cause?

 

[kyredneck]

I'm curious as to why you visited a black church. Are you black? Didn't know it was a black church? Always wanted to visit one? (actually there's a black Baptist church couple miles down the road from me I've thought about visiting but never have, know several of the members and have even done work for one of them)

 

[JamesL]

I was raised in a black Missionary Baptist church. Our family were the only white people. So it's a little nostalgic to visit a black Baptist.

But I don't usually expect much other than the music.

 

[kyredneck]

The music. Yeah. Right. The wife and I had three of her friends from a black Baptist church in town sing at our wedding 38 years ago. Heh, my clan still talks about that...

To answer your question, no.

 

[Sapper Woody]

I personally would have felt uncomfortable in that scenario. But as to celebrating a Muslim, I don't look at it that way. After all, on most churches we have patriotic services on July fourth, and sometimes on memorial day and veterans day. Are we celebrating the religion of soldiers? I don't think so.

All in all, I don't think what they did was wrong. But I would not have been comfortable with it.

Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk

 

[tyndale1946]

The music. Yeah. Right. The wife and I had three of her friends from a black Baptist church in town sing at our wedding 38 years ago. Heh, my clan still talks about that...

To answer your question, no.

We shared our church Little Bethany Primitive Baptist Church in San Diego, California with the Black brethren over the years... I've heard many Black preachers lay down the doctrine of Salvation by the Sovereign Grace of God and loved every minute of it... I heard them sing Amazing Grace as their ancestors in slavery sang it accapela in the fields from the depths of their heart and soul... They are all gone now but the memories... Oh those precious memories live on... And I was permitted by Gods loving grace to hear these eternal truths by both white and black preacher brethren over 50 years... Some I can still listen to on the internet as their are many sermons of those I was permitted to hear in person... Brother Glen

 

[TCassidy]

While still pastoring in San Diego, when I could beg off preaching and get one of my staff to do it I would sneak over to Calvary Baptist Church and listen to one of the greatest preachers of the 20th century, S.M. Lockridge.

 

[tyndale1946]

While still pastoring in San Diego, when I could beg off preaching and get one of my staff to do it I would sneak over to Calvary Baptist Church and listen to one of the greatest preachers of the 20th century, S.M. Lockridge.

I've never had the opportunity to hear this man S.M. Lockridge but I've heard a lot of Black Primitive Baptist preachers and each one had their unique style... They say its a small world... My childhood friend was black and they attended Calvary Baptist Church and his Mother played the organ there... He said his Grandfather was preacher and I know my friends name was Robinson... I never caught his Mothers maiden name could it have been Lockridge?... Only God knows!... So TC where was your church?... Brother Glen

 

[TCassidy]

I've never had the opportunity to hear this man S.M. Lockridge but I've heard a lot of Black Primitive Baptist preachers and each one had their unique style... They say its a small world... My childhood friend was black and they attended Calvary Baptist Church and his Mother played the organ there... He said his Grandfather was preacher and I know my friends name was Robinson... I never caught his Mothers maiden name could it have been Lockridge?... Only God knows!... So TC where was your church?... Brother Glen

SM Lockridge was born long before WWI, and took over as Pastor at Calvary in 1952, when he was in his early 40s or thereabouts. His wife's maiden name was Thompson. She too was a fellow Texan. They never had any children, so I don't know who your friend may have been talking about.

I pastored First Baptist Church of Spring Valley for just short of 27 years.

Listen to the first 5 minutes of this tape. The man is quite the ice breaker.

 

[tyndale1946]

SM Lockridge was born long before WWI, and took over as Pastor at Calvary in 1952, when he was in his early 40s or thereabouts. His wife's maiden name was Thompson. She too was a fellow Texan. They never had any children, so I don't know who your friend may have been talking about.

I pastored First Baptist Church of Spring Valley for just short of 27 years.

Listen to the first 5 minutes of this tape. The man is quite the ice breaker.

I was raised in Paradise Hills from 1948 to 1965 until I joined the Marine Corp and went to Morse H.S.... Paradise Hills was not far from Spring Valley as you know... Hung around San Diego for 57 years... Thanks for all that information... All I know is that his Grandfather was a preacher... Never went to his church so I can't say for sure which one it was but it was Baptist... They had plenty of Black Churches in San Diego and you know how big San Diego is... You were right in my backyard and I didn't even know it... Image that!... I listened to the first tape and once the Holy Spirit moves the preacher he will raise the roof... Heard quite a few raise it in my time!... Brother Glen

 

[TCassidy]

I was raised in Paradise Hills

Many of our members lived in Paradise Hills. It is now predominately Filipino and over half our church was Filipino, including the young man who took over from me as Senior Pastor. I used to joke, with the Filipinos and the Spanish ministry I was now a
minority.

 

[JamesL]

I personally would have felt uncomfortable in that scenario. But as to celebrating a Muslim, I don't look at it that way. After all, on most churches we have patriotic services on July fourth, and sometimes on memorial day and veterans day. Are we celebrating the religion of soldiers? I don't think so.

All in all, I don't think what they did was wrong. But I would not have been comfortable with it.

Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk

You have an interesting take on the scenario, and I've read your reply a dozen or so times today. I've been especially curious about the last sentences, that you don't think they were wrong, but that you would not have been comfortable with it.

And I don't think they were celebrating a Muslim. I think they were celebrating either the well-known native of Louisville or a perceived champion of civil rights.

In other words, that they either saw a Louisville connection or a black connection (or both) and became so enamored that they lost all sense of rationale concerning his faith.

But that's what I was getting at with the question at the end of the OP

Do you think civil rights is an important enough issue to where the church ought to embrace as brothers anyone who champions the cause?

 

[Darrell C]

I was visiting Louisville, Kentucky this past week, and dropped by a Black Baptist church for Sunday Service.

I was a little perplexed when one of the deacons stood for opening prayer and devoted no less than 10 minutes to thanking God for a newly departed brother, praising this brother for his efforts in the plight of the African American, etc...

He didn't mention the name of this newly departed brother, but it just felt as if he might be talking about the boxer. Interesting.

A few minutes later, during a devotional period, a video was shown. It was a 7-8 minute applauding Ali for his stance as a conscientious objector to war, based on religious conviction.

Another prayer was offered a little later, thanking God for this great man of faith whom God had blessed 20th century Black America with.

Both preachers mentioned this son of Louisville with thankful expression.

After the sermons, the Children's Church was brought to the front, where the leader gushed for 5 minutes over Ali, then each child read quotes of Ali, lasting approximately 15 minutes. Afterward, the leader gushed again for a couple of minutes about Ali's faith, character, personality, etc.

So here Iwas after service was over, nearly speechless.

Are these "Christians" aware that they were praising a Muslim's faith? I couldn't help asking one person - uh, this whole Ali thing...is that a black thing or a Louisville thing? He said "probably both"

So here I am now. I'm curious what Baptists here think. Not about Ali, but the church I visited.

What do you think about Baptists devoting almost an entire service to a Muslim?

Or so you think Blacks honoring a Black was more the theme?

Maybe a civil rights memorial?

As a note, I specifically asked if there was a memorial for Prince, who was a Jehovah's Witness? Nope.

I also noticed in the video there were shots of Jesse Jackson with Ali, and MLK jr. with Ali.

Do you think civil rights is an important enough issue to where the church ought to embrace as brothers anyone who champions the cause?

I would have a problem with it. While I understand how it might be important to them from a Black perspective, and I can fully understand that, the implications of making a Muslim a "brother" without clarifying that brotherhood refers to his race is an unsettling "sermon" in itself.

One would be God blessing a people through a false religion.

Another would be condoning membership in a false religion.

I am a little surprised that Prince wasn't also lauded, though I would say Ali held a different role for Black people then Prince did. I do know in my area the Blacks I did interact with when he died acted as though they had lost an idol (which truly he was for some). I was not aware He was JW, either, but then I wasn't exactly a Prince fan, I will say he bridged a gap with his Purple Rain album, giving an edge which was appreciated by those of the Rock culture, but apart from that, from the perspective of a former musician, he was highly overrated, his best claim being seen in his record sales, rather than the music itself.

I do think in view was more the issue that he was Black, rather than from a religious standpoint. Again, while I can understand that, I would be very upset if something like that occurred in a fellowship I belonged to. Might be hard to find someone who could parallel Ali's role to the Black People, but Sapper Woody gives a (somewhat) similar scenario concerning recognition of those who serve. But when we do that, it never negates a message of the Gospel being preached, and their faith is not a focal issue.


God bless.

 

[Van]

A question for another thread would be why so many famous blacks turn away from the"Christian" view of their youth, and embrace Islam in one form or another. Jamal Wilkes, Adul Jabar, there are dozens of them. Are there tapes of them talking about their conversion to Islam. Is it possible that their "black church" experience was akin to the church Mr. Obama attended? One factor might be that "Christian" people enslaved blacks.

 

[Rob_BW]

One factor might be that "Christian" people enslaved blacks.

If I may touch on just one point,

If Christendom's actions regarding slavery were a reason for an African American to feel animosity towards Christianity, pursuing Islam, which seems to still currently be involved in enslaving Africans, is an ironic decision.

 

[JamesL]

A question for another thread would be why so many famous blacks turn away from the"Christian" view of their youth, and embrace Islam in one form or another. Jamal Wilkes, Adul Jabar, there are dozens of them. Are there tapes of them talking about their conversion to Islam. Is it possible that their "black church" experience was akin to the church Mr. Obama attended? One factor might be that "Christian" people enslaved blacks.

I think that's valid rationale for this thread, especially the question near the end. I think a great many black people had the same church experience, regardless of denomination. If i'm not mistaken, the Civil Rights movement made a strong push into the church by specifically targeting pastors and other church leaders. Once they did that, they were able to make "black church" synonymous with black.

Then the whole thing is muddled together, and here we have black Christians embracing a Muslim as a fine brother.

To be fair, as Sapper Woody noted, we've all seen white churches honor veterans regardless of any religious persuasion. I can't say I've ever seen one honor a known adherent of a false religion as a brother, though.

It seems to me that this black brotherhood is more important to black Christians than Christianity is.

 

[Judith]

Just because someone has Baptist on their church or claims to be a Baptist does not mean they are of the Lord. When any person or people have a higher regard for evil than they do truth they are not Christians. 2Corthians 13:5 and 8.