And theirs isn't the truth that I am living day to day. ...
you're not willing to listen. you dismissed them and what they said because you're not willing to listen. It's what white folks have been doing to black folks for 400 years.
One of the reasons the BLM movement developed is because like yourself, a lot of white people don't listen to what Blacks say, so they are making sure that you know that they believe Black Lives Matter TOO.
Which is amazing, seeing as this country is only 239 years old. Even if you go all the way back to the pilgrims, it's less than 400 years on this continent.
The first slaves arrived here in 1619. So there's just about 400 years.
Then add to the fact that slavery wasn't legal until 1643 (even though there were a few slaves earlier), t....
Well gosh. I guess they just shipped those slaves back because slavery was illegal.
The majority has run this country. And the majority is white. It's not surprising, and it means nothing. Until a minority becomes the majority, this will not change.
Sure it does. That's your white privilege talking if you think Whites being the majority in this country doesn't mean anything.
So that a rational discussion can take place.
Rational according to whom? You and the other dismissive folks rigging the system? They already know what you and the dismissive folks think. That's why there is a BLM movement.
As I've said before, but you dismiss, I am willing to listen, i...
And as I said before stop lying. Not two or three paragraphs into your OP you completely dismissed them and what they were saying. You're not trying to have a discussion. You're trying to run the narrative the way white folks have for nearly 400 years. And you want them to agree with your reality when your reality IS NOT their reality.
Not happening and there simply is no reason to talk to folks like you about it.
No, the evidence didn't show any evidence. So, rather than dismiss experience, I...
Again, no you're not. You're saying the evidence you have gathered doesn't show any evidence. they are saying the lives they live and have lived is the evidence that you and those like you keep rejecting in favor of what the police and the rigged system keep saying.
Praise God for video because it's starting to show that the evidence that you say isn't there, really is. But a lot of white people like you don't want to believe it.
Firstly, again, take a look at your numbers. Your claim is impossible.
Firstly, again, you don't know what you're talking about. There have been black slaves in this land we now call the United States since the early colonial period and before brought over by the Spanish and others.
Second, I wasn't alive until the 80s.
And you obviously didn't have any problem learning the ways of the dismissiveness and marginalization of white privilege.
And even the oldest of blacks who remember segregation are dying off. The "voices" of the movement have no recollection of the injustices that blacks suffered years ago.
You must have darn near lost your mind even writing that. How about you go tell the Jews that the voices have no recollection of the Holocaust and see what response you get.
I'm going to take a break from the discussion here to say that I will readily admit that in the past blacks have been discriminated against, held back, etc. It was tragic, but it happened. But I refuse to feel ashamed for something I had no part in. I refuse to feel ashamed of being white.
Nobody asked you to feel ashamed. It's been established by you and a lot of other white folks that white folks will continue to be dismissive of and marginalize the lives of Blacks. You are ( and your words in this thread testify) are ACTIVELY, TODAY taking full part in THAT.
I am proud of my heritage (as should be everyone else).
If you believe that, based upon your comments, you only seem to believe that for white folks otherwise you wouldn't have a problem with folks saying Black Lives Matter.
You defend them. You stand up for them.
Where have I defended them? Where have I stood up for them? Even if I had, it would be irrelevant.I was simply trying to explain to you what they were saying. But like white people tend to do whenever they think a group of black people is speaking against them and what they have done or are doing, you got a chip on your shoulder about the group.
Whether you are a part of the group, you are aligned with them. You don't have to say something for it to be true. It's really simple. Just like your claim that you've never called anyone on this board racist. No, you've never said the words, but the clear implication was there.
You can claim I'm aligned with the "group" all you want and it won't make it true. Are you aligned with the KKK or the Aryan Brotherhood or perhaps the Skinheads? Your words would lead some to think that you might share the same philosophies as those groups. The clear implication is there.
I'll give you credit. You are very careful with your words. But you have to be. Your position(s) are wrong, and so you have to pick and choose your wording carefully so as not to leave the holes in your arguments exposed.
I'm very careful with my words because unlike a lot of folks, I know what the words mean. You and a lot of others are just upset that you have to try so hard to find holes so that you can make the truth look untrue. Too funny. :laugh:
I'll be dead honest here. In the past I was completely dismissive of their experiences, because I didn't see the evidence. But, IN THIS THREAD, I have been open to discussion. And still am, if someone will discuss reasonably without dismissing me outright.
And you insist on continuing to tell this lie. How are you gonna dismiss what they say and then say you're open to discussion? Stop giving lip service to being open minded when you've made clear that you're not. It's as though you're trying to curry some sort of "I'm taking the high road" position for the folks reading because you know the majority of them will fall for it and act as though you hadn't already set yourself up to dismiss what the BLM folks were saying.
So save that foolishness for the folks on here who are gonna fall for it. I CAN read and saw exactly what you did. And if you think that's a demonstration of being open to discussion, you continue to be part of the problem as to why there won't be any discussion.
What do you think I am doing? Right now, I am asking for an exchange of experiences. How can you say I haven't asked for an exchange. That's what I've been doing almost this whole thread.
How are you asking for an exchange of experiences if you've already said
Sapper said:
This could, in all honesty, just be an ignorance of the facts. Looking at the numbers, there is NOT a "systemic pattern of anti-black law enforcement violence".
You've ALREADY dismissed their experiences. So what's the purpose in them attempting to have an exchange of experiences with someone who has already dismissed their experiences as ignorance of the facts?
So again, stop pretending when your words make clear that what you now say you're doing is NOT the case.
You're opinion. It's wrong, but you're entitled to it. .
"
It wasn't opinion. It was quite factual.
I haven't said that at all. To use your words, "I've never said that." In fact, I've said the opposite. I've said, "I'm willing to examine your experiences if you'll examine mine (ours)
Oh you said it. You and some other white people are just so used to saying stuff like you said that you don't even realize what you did. That's why it's SYSTEMIC.
You were dismissive and don't even realize it. But then you wonder why there is no discussion. Why would there be a discussion when, like you, white people have been dismissive of what Blacks have said or experienced for nearly 400 years? And then turn around and try to claim to be open to discussion as though the black people don't have sense enough to see what you did.
If we can't go to the data, and we can't go to experiences, then I guess nothing will ever change.
You go to the data, because you're white and you trust the white people who are rigging the system.
You won't go to the experiences because the experiences go against your data.
So you're right. Nothing will ever change. And black people will continue to express that their lives matter, and white folks like yourself will continue to dismissively reply that all lives matter.
(con't)
