Black Lives Matter Mission

[Rolfe]

Rippon, Rev Mitchell, Wpe3bql- Your point is taken. Thank-you.

 

[Zaac]

Ok, Zaac, I feel there is a talking past each other here. Let's start over, and I'll attempt to explain my current position in a more accurate wording.

Hearing about the Black Lives Matter, but realizing that I've never really looked into what the movement stood for, I decided to look for answers and see what the movement is really about. I did a google search. I came upon the founder's website.

After looking at the website, I realized that the founders of the movement were people, who at the least, were ignorant. They either did not care to use accurate statements, or did not bother to check up on them. (If they got their numbers from a different source, I'd like to examine that source. But they gave no sources. In the absence of given sources, I had to do my own searching.)

Again, you marginalize based upon your source that is part of the system they are opposing.

And you didn't dismiss the website in what you said earlier. You dismissed their experiences upon which they said there was anti-Black law enforcement violence.

And you based your dismissal upon your data,not theirs. So unless you know what data they used, it's dismissive to discount what they said as the truth because you don't know what they are looking at.

As I said before, most black folks can tell you all sorts of stories about anti-Black police violence that hasn't made the news or that got swept under the rug. It's much more prevalent than folks want to believe in this era of militarized police.

They were more concerned about the queer black woman's rights than black rights as a whole.

I don't know anything about that.

So, I dismissed the website.

After dismissing the website, I decided to look into the matter further.

Again, they created a hashtag. BLM is not an organization. The three founders of the hashtag can talk about whatever they wish. They don't control the movement as much as they probably think they do.

This is where I am right now. I want to find out what the average black person is thinking in terms of equality and oppression. I don't care about what some website that caters to queers says. I want to find out what individuals think, what they feel, and why they think/feel that way.

But THAT is not what you said. You said you wanted to know what BLM really stood for.

And my response was that you were looking in the wrong place. That website is about the vision of the three founders of the Black Lives Matter HASHTAG.

They aren't driving the movement and certainly don't speak ( at least to the degree that they apparently think they do) for the folks who are involved in the burgeoning movement.

It's not an organization unless someone has formed actual local organizations around the idea that Black Lives matter and given it structure and leadership.

Otherwise, you're confusing what the creators of a hashtag say with the ideals of the movement, and the two are definitely not aligned when you listen to the folks who are focused on Black Lives Mattering and not all that other ancillary stuff you said was on the website.

The worst that can happen is that I disagree. That's the absolute worst case scenario.

Possibly. But there is no reason why anyone should be opposed to anti-Black police violence.

I don't want someone ranting, I want someone talking. Don't try and tell me that "black people face this on a daily basis." I want to hear, "Here's what I faced." I don't want, "black people don't get the opportunities white people do." I want, "Here's the opportunity I didn't get because I am black."

And they want "don't tell me ALL lives matter when I'm trying to explain that Black Lives Matter".

If people are facing this on a daily basis, it shouldn't be hard to find. But I am having a hard time finding it. It's natural to be skeptical of someone claiming "black people face it all the time", and then when you ask, "give me an example", the response is, "it happens all the time."

Again, when ,as you initially did, you dismiss them as ignorant of the facts, it's not gonna endear anyone to want to share their experiences with you upon which they have based their statements.

All I can get is answers that talk about the collective, not the individual.

You collectively dismissed their experiences.

Now, while I know that one person does not represent the collective as a whole, my first outreach into finding out what black people go through was tonight to a young man attending the college here.

He talked to me in confidence, and so I won't share his story. But, basically, his response was, "Before I got saved, I was the worst. I believed that the white man was responsible for all the wrongs in my life. Then I met Jesus four years ago, and I realized that He was the answer. Since that time, I've not felt like the white man has held me down at all."

Again, I know that one person does not a pattern make. But I can't help but wonder how many others there are like him out there, who simply need to hear the Gospel. In this one person's life, his outlook completely changed since he got saved.

Hearing the Gospel doesn't have anything to do with police violence against black people unless changing their hearts for Christ is going to change how they police Black people to the same way that they police white people. If they and a lot of folks have heard it, they certainly don't act like it.

I can't solve America's woes. I can't reconcile the black versus white mentality. But what I can do it give the gospel. I can share the good news to all (black, white, whatever), and try to change lives that way.

That's what should be taking place period. But as I said to you all during the Presidential election about certain choices taking away your platform to do certain things. The same applies here.

When people see you marginalizing them and their experiences, when they see you dismissing as ignorance of the facts the police violence they are experiencing and have experienced...when they see white folks who call themselves Christians collectively supporting those things that have harmed them with no consideration for what they say, then in a lot of instances, you won't get that platform because your previous actions have given them reason to not listen.

Back to the subject at hand, I am currently in a state where I wish to invite dialogue. I want someone to give me their personal testimony of how the white man held them back. I want someone to give me a first hand account of how they were discriminated against. Not in the 60s. I know that. Today. In the 2000s.

What does this have to do with BLM?

The abolishment of slavery was the beginning. MLK and Rosa Parks ignited a movement. Today, the same thing is being attempted. But, to what end? In order for me, as a white man, to possibly understand what the black population wants, and in order to form a reconciliation, I need to hear what is going on. I need actual experiences, not "it happens all the time".

Again, nice topic for another thread. But what does this have to do with BLM? You seem to be letting how you think black people feel about white people influence what your response to the BLM movement is.

Black people have the right to vote. They have the right to free speech. They have all the same legal rights I have, as a white man. If they are being discriminated against, I need something concrete. I can't back a movement that just simply says, "this is the way we see it." I need, "This is why we see it that way."

This is how they see what? That Black Lives Matter?

In the midst of all of these murders of unarmed black people, you have to ask why black and white folks would get behind a movement that emotes that Black Lives Matter?

What other evidence do you need as it pertains to the essence of why they are saying Black Lives Matter?

Not all the crazy stuff from the website, but what is it about there being a Black Lives Matter movement that you don't understand given the current climate and police killing unarmed black people?

 

[targus]

Zaac, Poncho is that you?

Kind of funny how Poncho gets the boot and Zaac changes from his typical two or three word insulting responses to pondering droning endless posts.

 

[just-want-peace]

Zaac, Poncho is that you?

Kind of funny how Poncho gets the boot and Zaac changes from his typical two or three word insulting responses to pondering droning endless posts.

Seems like this board is beginning to be run (ruin?) just like the country!

Quick observation:: Maybe ZAAC is in fact the ZERO ---- that being the reason he has such (apparent) control in this board!?!? Just a thought. :laugh:

 

[Rolfe]

Quick observation:: Maybe ZAAC is in fact the ZERO ...

As much as he seems to be against Whites, and particularly white police officers, I would guess Louis Farrakhan.

 

[Sapper Woody]

I see that my request that the de-railing comments cease so that I could have an actual conversation has gone unheeded.

Zaac, I don't have time to respond to your post. Hopefully tonight after my evening class. I feel like we're closer to a meeting of the minds.

 

[Zaac]

As much as he seems to be against Whites, and particularly white police officers, I would guess Louis Farrakhan.

Neither of your statements have anything to do with this thread.

 

[Zaac]

I see that my request that the de-railing comments cease so that I could have an actual conversation has gone unheeded.

Zaac, I don't have time to respond to your post. Hopefully tonight after my evening class. I feel like we're closer to a meeting of the minds.

Take your time Sapper. I'm heading to the gym and a late run afterwards.

 

[carpro]

Ok, Zaac, I feel there is a talking past each other here. Let's start over, and I'll attempt to explain my current position in a more accurate wording.

You're wasting your time. zaac is neither interested in the facts nor the truth nor "more accurate wording." His sole purpose here is disruption.