It is so very good to meet you it really is nice. I have been thinking the exact same thing recently. Yes, Calvinists especially, they read book after book explaining their beliefs. They get themselves further and further away from the truth.
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Blinding Their Minds to the Gospel
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
It is so very good to meet you it really is nice. I have been thinking the exact same thing recently. Yes, Calvinists especially, they read book after book explaining their beliefs. They get themselves further and further away from the truth.
savedbymercy
New Member
Who did Jesus specifically preach Salvation to ?
Lk 4:18
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Preaching the Gospel as it pertained to Salvation, those to whom it was a Savor of Life unto Life 2 Cor 2:16, and to whom it was the power of God Rom 1:16, was limited to a certain people, a prepared people, much like how it was with John the Baptist Lk 1:17
And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
For this Jesus Himself proclaimed, to whom He was Anointed and sent to preach the Gospel of Salvation unto. Now was it everyone without exception ? No , but it was to the poor Lk 4:18
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Now what does poor mean here ? Poor means poor in Spirit as in Matt 5:3
3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
You see that ? Its a blessed thing to be made poor in Spirit, and the Promise is to them, that theirs is the Kingdom of heaven, and so, that being the case, the Gospel of their Salvation comes to them Eph 1:13
The poor in Spirit are Heirs of the Kingdom, the Kingdom of Heaven James 2:5
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Now ask yourself, are all men without exception poor in spirit ? No they are not, and to become that, one must be blessed of God, that is God the Holy Spirit, in New Birth. It is a Covenant Blessing, a Kingdom Blessing, of one who has been birthed into His Kingdom ! Jn 3:3-5
So the Gospel is sent to a spiritually prepared people, those who by the Spirit will be made sensibly aware of their own spiritual poverty and sinfulness, much Like the Publican in Lk 18:13
13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Thats poor in Spirit folks, and to such, God sends the good news of their Salvation, to them the Gospel is preached !
Lk 4:18
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Preaching the Gospel as it pertained to Salvation, those to whom it was a Savor of Life unto Life 2 Cor 2:16, and to whom it was the power of God Rom 1:16, was limited to a certain people, a prepared people, much like how it was with John the Baptist Lk 1:17
And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
For this Jesus Himself proclaimed, to whom He was Anointed and sent to preach the Gospel of Salvation unto. Now was it everyone without exception ? No , but it was to the poor Lk 4:18
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Now what does poor mean here ? Poor means poor in Spirit as in Matt 5:3
3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
You see that ? Its a blessed thing to be made poor in Spirit, and the Promise is to them, that theirs is the Kingdom of heaven, and so, that being the case, the Gospel of their Salvation comes to them Eph 1:13
The poor in Spirit are Heirs of the Kingdom, the Kingdom of Heaven James 2:5
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Now ask yourself, are all men without exception poor in spirit ? No they are not, and to become that, one must be blessed of God, that is God the Holy Spirit, in New Birth. It is a Covenant Blessing, a Kingdom Blessing, of one who has been birthed into His Kingdom ! Jn 3:3-5
So the Gospel is sent to a spiritually prepared people, those who by the Spirit will be made sensibly aware of their own spiritual poverty and sinfulness, much Like the Publican in Lk 18:13
13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Thats poor in Spirit folks, and to such, God sends the good news of their Salvation, to them the Gospel is preached !
All of them are limited in their understanding despite what they may think.That completely contradicts the Calvinists who say that only some men can believe because God only gives some men the gift of faith.
Jerry Shugart
New Member
All men, without exception, have the ability to understand and believe the gospel. Here we see Paul speak about the "god of this age" blinding the minds of people so that the light of the gospel does not shine unto them:Who did Jesus specifically preach Salvation to ?
Now ask yourself, are all men without exception poor in spirit ? No they are not, and to become that, one must be blessed of God, that is God the Holy Spirit, in New Birth. It is a Covenant Blessing, a Kingdom Blessing, of one who has been birthed into His Kingdom ! Jn 3:3-5
"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this age hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Cor.4:3-4).
From this we can understand that even those who are "lost" and "believe not" have the ability to understand and believe the gospel. If it were not for the fact that their minds have been blinded its light would shine unto them--"lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."
Therefore we can understand that all men have the ability to understand and believe the gospel, even those who do not believe it and remain lost.
That completely contradicts the Calvinists who say that only some men can believe because God only gives some men the gift of faith.
All men, without exception, have the ability to understand and believe the gospel. Here we see Paul speak about the "god of this age" blinding the minds of people so that the light of the gospel does not shine unto them:
"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this age hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Cor.4:3-4).
From this we can understand that even those who are "lost" and "believe not" have the ability to understand and believe the gospel. If it were not for the fact that their minds have been blinded its light would shine unto them--"lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."
Therefore we can understand that all men have the ability to understand and believe the gospel, even those who do not believe it and remain lost.
That completely contradicts the Calvinists who say that only some men can believe because God only gives some men the gift of faith.
They just continue as if they did not hear those powerful words of Truth explained. I hope that one day soon it will sink in.
savedbymercy
New Member
jerry
Yiu are not paying attention to Jesus words, read it again post 102 and look at the verses..
All men, without exception
Yiu are not paying attention to Jesus words, read it again post 102 and look at the verses..
savedbymercy
New Member
Who did Jesus specifically preach Salvation to ?
Let us notice a second detail of those the Gospel is preached to, Jesus says to the Captives Lk 4:18
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
The word preach here means to:
to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done
In other words, the deliverance of the captive is something to be proclaimed as done, not contingent, not possible, not if, but or maybe, but that it is a done deal !
The word deliverance means:
release from bondage or imprisonment
2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty
The Ideal is this, if one has been serving a death sentence for having been guilty of gruesome crimes, and then on the by and by, they have brought to them that they are now free, that the penalty has been satisfied, that they are forgiven all is well, the state holds nothing against you now, in fact it is as you never did the crimes !
Even all are captives by nature, all are not sensible of it, however God will make all His Chosen ones who are captives by satan, to feel their captivity and to hope for His deliverance as He did with the Children of Israel Ex 3:8-9
And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.
Jesus Christ came down to deliver His Spiritual Israel, His Church from the works of the Devil 1 Jn 3:8, That He may deliver us from this present evil world Gal 1:4
4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world[Egypt], according to the will of God and our Father:
9Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them.
Yes, God will cause our captivity to become a oppression[distress or affliction] right before He sends the good news of the Gospel, Proclaiming our deliverance !
He prepares His People for the heartily reception of the Gospel of their salvation, they receive it with readiness of heart ! Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Now do you think any of the Children of Israel would not have been ready to hear the Good News of their deliverance from Egypt ?
Let us notice a second detail of those the Gospel is preached to, Jesus says to the Captives Lk 4:18
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
The word preach here means to:
to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done
In other words, the deliverance of the captive is something to be proclaimed as done, not contingent, not possible, not if, but or maybe, but that it is a done deal !
The word deliverance means:
release from bondage or imprisonment
2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty
The Ideal is this, if one has been serving a death sentence for having been guilty of gruesome crimes, and then on the by and by, they have brought to them that they are now free, that the penalty has been satisfied, that they are forgiven all is well, the state holds nothing against you now, in fact it is as you never did the crimes !
Even all are captives by nature, all are not sensible of it, however God will make all His Chosen ones who are captives by satan, to feel their captivity and to hope for His deliverance as He did with the Children of Israel Ex 3:8-9
And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.
Jesus Christ came down to deliver His Spiritual Israel, His Church from the works of the Devil 1 Jn 3:8, That He may deliver us from this present evil world Gal 1:4
4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world[Egypt], according to the will of God and our Father:
9Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them.
Yes, God will cause our captivity to become a oppression[distress or affliction] right before He sends the good news of the Gospel, Proclaiming our deliverance !
He prepares His People for the heartily reception of the Gospel of their salvation, they receive it with readiness of heart ! Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Now do you think any of the Children of Israel would not have been ready to hear the Good News of their deliverance from Egypt ?
Who did Jesus specifically preach Salvation to ?
What did He say?
Matthew 15:24
King James Version (KJV)
24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Christ had a particular ministry to Israel...He was the promised Messiah, long awaited for, as attested by this woman:
John 4
7There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
But unknown by Israel was that Christ was to benefit all mankind. For Christ had a ministry to the world as well, also in fulfillment of the promisies of God. Though Christ specifically stated to His disciples that which He would do, they did not understand. It was not, I believe, they they received the Spirit on Pentecost that they did in fact understand.
Christ has fulfilled God's promises to man concerning redemption, though for Israel (nationally) there yet remains a promise.
I will have to agree with the member that said "All men."
God bless.
savedbymercy
New Member
darrell
What does Lk 4:18 say ? Who was Jesus anointed to Preach the Gospel to ?
What did He say?
What does Lk 4:18 say ? Who was Jesus anointed to Preach the Gospel to ?
"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this age hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Cor.4:3-4).
Then this "god of this age" is more powerful than God? This new god decides whom can be "saved?"
Then this "god of this age" is more powerful than God? This new god decides whom can be "saved?"
darrell
What does Lk 4:18 say ? Who was Jesus anointed to Preach the Gospel to ?
And that would include all men, right?
Are there those who were not under sin's dominion?
I am pretty sure I asked if you would clarify what it is you mean to say, if not, I will ask now.
(I am a little slow, sometimes...lol)
God bless.
Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovery of sight to the blind, To set free those who are oppressed,And that would include all men, right
The poor are those who are not just economically poor but those who are poor in spirit and those who are ready to hear. The poor were the lowly in society. Just the opposite of those who had enough wealth to control others.
Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovery of sight to the blind, To set free those who are oppressed,
The poor are those who are not just economically poor but those who are poor in spirit and those who are ready to hear. The poor were the lowly in society. Just the opposite of those who had enough wealth to control others.
And that would include all men...right?
Does not every word quoted above speak to the spiritual condition of man?
God bless.
I would agree. Although not all men will respond positively. Judas certainly did not.And that would include all men...right?
Does not every word quoted above speak to the spiritual condition of man?
savedbymercy
New Member
darrell
No it does't ! I explained who it included in post 102 !
And that would include all men, right?
No it does't ! I explained who it included in post 102 !
savedbymercy
New Member
The Main Purpose for Gospel Preaching !
Rom 10:14-15
14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
How shall who hear without a Preacher ? The Sheep of course. Remember Jesus said Jn 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
The Main purpose of Gospel Preaching in the Apostolic era, was to call forth Faith and Repentance in the Spiritually alive Elect, or Sheep ! Thats why Paul says this in Acts 20:19-21
19Serving the LORD with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:
20And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house,
21Testifying both to the Jews [Sheep], and also to the Greeks[Sheep], repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
The word testifying here is the greek word diamartyromai and it means:
to testify
a) earnestly, religiously to charge
2) to attest, testify to, solemnly affirm
a) to give solemn testimony to one
b) to confirm a thing by testimony, to testify, cause it to be believed
Paul through His Apostolic Ministry was giving confirmation to the Spiritually awakened Sheep of the Jews and the Gentiles of their Salvation through Christ, causing them to believe their Testimony, by the work of the Spirit attending His Ministry. This was the Main and Primary reason for Apostolic Gospel Preaching !
Paul said to the Believing Corinthians this 1 Cor 1:6
Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: This word confirmed in the greek is in the passive voice, they were made recipients of the Testimony of the Gospel, being confirmed into belief of the Truth !
If one believes the True Testimony of the Gospel, it is not because of their freewill choice, but it was confirmed in them by God the Holy Spirit !
Rom 10:14-15
14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
How shall who hear without a Preacher ? The Sheep of course. Remember Jesus said Jn 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
The Main purpose of Gospel Preaching in the Apostolic era, was to call forth Faith and Repentance in the Spiritually alive Elect, or Sheep ! Thats why Paul says this in Acts 20:19-21
19Serving the LORD with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:
20And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house,
21Testifying both to the Jews [Sheep], and also to the Greeks[Sheep], repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
The word testifying here is the greek word diamartyromai and it means:
to testify
a) earnestly, religiously to charge
2) to attest, testify to, solemnly affirm
a) to give solemn testimony to one
b) to confirm a thing by testimony, to testify, cause it to be believed
Paul through His Apostolic Ministry was giving confirmation to the Spiritually awakened Sheep of the Jews and the Gentiles of their Salvation through Christ, causing them to believe their Testimony, by the work of the Spirit attending His Ministry. This was the Main and Primary reason for Apostolic Gospel Preaching !
Paul said to the Believing Corinthians this 1 Cor 1:6
Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: This word confirmed in the greek is in the passive voice, they were made recipients of the Testimony of the Gospel, being confirmed into belief of the Truth !
If one believes the True Testimony of the Gospel, it is not because of their freewill choice, but it was confirmed in them by God the Holy Spirit !
savedbymercy
New Member
The Gospel that Paul Preached !
The Gospel that Paul Preached makes it quite clear that a man is not saved by anything they have done, no obedience of theirs, In fact he teaches that as we [God's Elect] were made sinners, not by what we did, but by what Adam did, so in same exact fashion, we [God's Elect] are made Righteous, not by what we did, but what Christ did, whom is the Head of the Church Rom 5:18-19
18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The Gospel that Paul Preached makes it quite clear that a man is not saved by anything they have done, no obedience of theirs, In fact he teaches that as we [God's Elect] were made sinners, not by what we did, but by what Adam did, so in same exact fashion, we [God's Elect] are made Righteous, not by what we did, but what Christ did, whom is the Head of the Church Rom 5:18-19
18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
A man who has not been born of the Spirit of God will tell you that the teachings of Jesus are simple. But when you are baptized with the Holy Ghost, you find "clouds and darkness are round about Him." When we come into close contact with the teachings of Jesus Christ we have our first insight into this aspect of things. The only possibility of understanding the teaching of Jesus is by the light of the Spirit of God on the inside. If we have never had the experience of taking our commonplace religious shoes off our commonplace religious feet, and getting rid of all the undue familiarity with which we approach God, it is questionable whether we have ever stood in His presence. The people who are flippant and familiar are those who have never yet been introduced to Jesus Christ. After the amazing delight and liberty of realizing what Jesus Christ does, comes the impenetrable darkness of realizing Who He is.No it does't ! I explained who it included in post 102 !
Source: http://utmost.org/classic/clouds-and-darkness/
So how long does it take to make one poor in spirit?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
It would appear to this listener a very strange and warped depiction of our walk with the Lord, to depict it as a walk in Him in "impenetrable darkness." Somehow I failed to find such a depiction of the Christian walk in Scripture. GB93433, could you help us find such as Scripture? I thought Scripture spoke concerning His children as children of the light and NOT of darkness? I thought God has promised to reveal Himself to those that seek Him? Certainly there's a lot of questions all of us have concerning an infinite God, but to say that we walking impenetrable darkness as believers? Again, does the Scripture say we should view ourselves and walk as children of light? Does not light indicate knowledge of God?
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
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It would appear to this listener a very strange and warped depiction of our walk with the Lord, to depict it as a walk in Him in "impenetrable darkness." Somehow I failed to find such a depiction of the Christian walk in Scripture. GB93433, could you help us find such as Scripture? I thought Scripture spoke concerning His children as children of the light and NOT of darkness? I thought God has promised to reveal Himself to those that seek Him? Certainly there's a lot of questions all of us have concerning an infinite God, but to say that we walking impenetrable darkness as believers? Again, does the Scripture say we should view ourselves and walk as children of light? Does not light indicate knowledge of God?
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Deut 4:29, "But from there you will seek the Lord your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.
Romans 1 talks about God's revelation to those in darkness.