Boasting

[Skandelon]

True.

And that rebuts my assertion how?

Because its not about how good man's heart is, its about how powerful God's truth is in providing what is needed for reconciliation.

The Gospel isn't powerless.

In your system it is powerless to most of humanity. The real power in your system is in the so called "effectual call" not the gospel.

They all are. We presume nothing. Each of our tenets are clearly stated in the Scriptures.

Really? What scripture teaches that men are unable to willingly respond positively to God's appeal to be reconciled?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Jim Boice in The Doctrines Of Grace, " this doctrine of Total Inability, which declares that men are dead to sin, does not mean that all men are equally bad, nor that any man is as bad as he could be, nor that anyone is entirely destitute of virtue, nor that human nature is evil in itself, nor that mans spirit is inactive, and much less does it mean the body is dead. What it does mean is that since the fall of man rests under the curse of sin, that he is actuated by wrong principles, and that he is wholly unable to love God or to do anything meriting salvation".

 

[Robert Snow]

So, answer my question. Is it within your power to be perfectly Christlike?

Yes, it is possible, Paul seemed to accomplish it. He told believers to emulate him in their walk with Christ.

I will admit that only a few would achieve it, but God would not tell us to do what we could not do.

This isn't the same thing as requiring something, like keeping the law. God required the keeping of the law, yet He, knowing we could not, allowed us to be in Christ and thus keep the law in Him.

 

[Winman]

Jim Boice in The Doctrines Of Grace, " this doctrine of Total Inability, which declares that men are dead to sin, does not mean that all men are equally bad, nor that any man is as bad as he could be, nor that anyone is entirely destitute of virtue, nor that human nature is evil in itself, nor that mans spirit is inactive, and much less does it mean the body is dead. What it does mean is that since the fall of man rests under the curse of sin, that he is actuated by wrong principles, and that he is wholly unable to love God or to do anything meriting salvation".

I find it amazing that Calvinism believes man can do any good thing EXCEPT believe on Jesus. While one man chooses to be an honest citizen, a faithful husband and father, another man chooses to be a criminal or a pervert. And some men who once lived a life as a criminal can turn and become an honest citizen. If natural men have the ability to turn from gross sin to less sin (because in Calvinism everything they do is sin), why can they not also turn from sin to Christ? Why can they recognize and turn from every form of evil except unbelief?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I find it amazing that Calvinism believes man can do any good thing EXCEPT believe on Jesus. While one man chooses to be an honest citizen, a faithful husband and father, another man chooses to be a criminal or a pervert. And some men who once lived a life as a criminal can turn and become an honest citizen. If natural men have the ability to turn from gross sin to less sin (because in Calvinism everything they do is sin), why can they not also turn from sin to Christ? Why can they recognize and turn from every form of evil except unbelief?

Have you read "Method Of Grace" by George Whitefield. I think you will find allot of your answers in there.

 

[Rippon]

I find it amazing that Calvinism believes man can do any good thing EXCEPT believe on Jesus. While one man chooses to be an honest citizen, a faithful husband and father, another man chooses to be a criminal or a pervert. And some men who once lived a life as a criminal can turn and become an honest citizen.

No one does good as the Lord considers good. A natural,unregenerate person who does what others consider to be noble self-sacrificing deeds are wicked acts in God's eyes. Not as wicked as other acts -- but wicked nonetheless. One who does things with an eye to glorifying God on the other hand -- are good deeds. Not deeds that save -- but acts that give all glory to the Lord after one is regenerate.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Taken from Whitefields Method Of Grace

"When the sinner is first awakened, he begins to wonder -- How came I to be so wicked? The Spirit of God then strikes in, and shows that he has no good thing in him by nature; then he sees that he is altogether gone out of the way, that he is altogether become abominable, and the poor creature is made to live down at the foot of the throne of God, and to acknowledge that God would be just to damn him, just to cut him off, though he never had committed one actual sin in his life. Did you ever feel and experience this, any of you -- to justify God in your damnation -- to own that you are by nature children of wrath, and that God may justly cut you off, though you never actually had offended him in all your life? If you were ever truly convicted, if your hearts were ever truly cut, if self were truly taken out of you, you would be made to see and feel this. And if you have never felt the weight of original sin, do not call yourselves Christians. I am verily persuaded original sin is the greatest burden of a true convert; this ever grieves the regenerate soul, the sanctified soul. The indwelling of sin in the heart is the burden of a converted person; it is the burden of a true Christian. He continually cries out, "O! who will deliver me from this body of death," this indwelling corruption in my heart? This is that which disturbs a poor soul most. And, therefore, if you never felt this inward corruption, if you never saw that God might justly curse you for it, indeed, my dear friends, you may speak peace to your hearts, but I fear, nay, I know, there is no true peace."

 

[Winman]

I don't agree with that statement at all. I would believe it very unjust for God to condemn me if I had never offended him.

That said, I know I have sinned and offended God and therefore my condemnation is just.

According to that statement, God would be perfectly just in condemning a baby simply because they exist. And that must be the case, because we see that Esau and Jacob had done no evil when they were in their mother's womb in Rom 9:11.

But still, this was not an answer to my question. Why is it that natural man can recognize and repent of any evil EXCEPT unbelief in Christ? Why this one single exception?

If we are truly slaves to sin, then how can man turn and repent of any sin? Why AREN'T we all as utterly evil as we can possibly be?

This seems to be a contradiction to me.

 

[J.D.]

Your avatar is appropriate for a Calvinist. Both John Calvin and J. Frank Norris were involved in the killing of two unarmed men.

Temper, temper...

[BTW I heard it was self defense but it doesn't matter to me anyway I have JFN as an avatar in humor although I do admire the man in certain ways...and if you understand why Servetus went to Geneva you'll understand why he was executed by the civil authorities there.]

 

[Robert Snow]

Temper, temper...

[BTW I heard it was self defense but it doesn't matter to me anyway I have JFN as an avatar in humor although I do admire the man in certain ways...and if you understand why Servetus went to Geneva you'll understand why he was executed by the civil authorities there.]

There were no charges filed; it was ruled as self-defense. I have heard that Norris was a good preacher, although I have never heard any of his messages. I had a pastor one time that though well of him.

As far as Calvin is concerned, I don't think well of the doctrine he developed. This colors the way I perceive the man.

I view Calvinism as a problem for the church. I think it does great damage to the Gospel of Christ. It makes man nothing but a robot that is manipulated by a fickle God who is just as content with unfairly condemning man than He is saving them. It ascribes evil motives to a holy God, which I find anathema to the Gospel of God. I could never accept this false belief as the truth I see presented in the bible.

 

[Rippon]

I view Calvinism as a problem for the church. It makes man nothing but a robot

You are bringing that tired ole'mantra to the table? Don't you have a real argument?

that is manipulated by a fickle God

Only anti-Calvinists come up with that blasphemous junk you're spewing.

who is just as content with unfairly condemning man than He is saving them.

There is nothing unfair for God to condemn the whole human race to eternal perdition. Once more you confuse the Lord's mercy and grace with His justice Robert. It is by His mercy that any are saved. None of us want His justice.

Away with that junk of yours (and some others here) who say that God is unfair to condemn anyone. All sinners deserve condemnation.The Lord owes no one anything. The saved are debtors to His mercy.

It ascribes evil motives to a holy God, which I find anathema to the Gospel of God.

Calvinism never ascribes evil motives to the Thrice Holy God! Why do you insist on lying?

 

[Robert Snow]

You are bringing that tired ole'mantra to the table? Don't you have a real argument?

Why argue with you. You won't listen to the bible; why would you listen to me?

Only anti-Calvinists come up with that blasphemous junk you're spewing.

Just logic based on Calvinistic doctrine. Yes, I am anti-Calvinistic, just like I am anti-Jehovah's Witness, or anti-Mormonism, etc.

There is nothing unfair for God to condemn the whole human race to eternal perdition. Once more you confuse the Lord's mercy and grace with His justice Robert. It is by His mercy that any are saved. None of us want His justice.

I don't confuse anything. The Calvinist makes God responsible for man rejecting Him, then holds man accountable for God's action. Unbelievable!

Away with that junk of yours (and some others here) who say that God is unfair to condemn anyone. All sinners deserve condemnation.The Lord owes no one anything. The saved are debtors to His mercy.

No, away with the false teachings of Calvinism. It does spite to the grace of God reveled in the bible.

Correct,the Lord owes no one mercy, yet He extends it to ALL who, of their own free will, receive His forgiveness. We don't believe in a God who makes man's choices for him and then holds man accountable for what God has caused man to do. This is anathema to the true Gospel of Christ!

Calvinism never ascribes evil motives to the Thrice Holy God! Why do you insist on lying?

Calvinism makes God responsible for all of man's choices. When a man does evil, like rape or murder, it is because this is what God wants them to do. If you don't believe me, ask a leading Calvinist here, Luke. He will set you straight as to what Calvinism teaches. It's not my fault that it goes against the plain teachings of the Word of God!